Key question

[Blaydo]

OK I'm playing a tune on a D whistle in the key of G where my f's are naturally sharp and I half hole to make the C's neutral, now if I want to play this same tune in the key of A major and I pick up an E whistle and finger the tune the same way I'm in the key of G. But my question is what exactly happens to those f sharps and c neutrals? Do I have to change the fingering for those 2 or can I just finger the whole tune exactly the same way, half holing the top hole etc. on the E whistle?

P.S. Also, if I was to just use a D whistle and finger it in A what would I have to do with those f's and C's?

[MTGuru]

can I just finger the whole tune exactly the same way, half holing the top hole etc. on the E whistle?

Yes, exactly. As far as you're concerned, you're still playing (fingering) the tune in G (the G major scale). The whistle is automagically transposing everything up one whole step. The F#'s now sound as G#'s, and the C-nats now sound as D-nats. So everything comes out sounding as it should in the key of A. The relationships of the notes to each other within the tune are unchanged.

Here's the transposition that your E whistle does automatically for you. G scale on left of arrows, A scale on right:

G -> A
A -> B
B -> C#
C-nat -> D
D -> E
E -> F#
F# -> G#

Also, if I was to just use a D whistle and finger it in A what would I have to do with those f's and C's?

In that case, you're the one who has to manually play every note of the tune in G one step higher. So looking at the above table, you finger the notes on the right instead of the notes on the left.

The C-nats become easy D's, no problem. But the F#'s become G#'s - so those are the ones you now have to worry about half-holing or cross-fingering.

Make sense?

[hoopy mike]

OK I'm playing a tune on a D whistle in the key of G where my f's are naturally sharp and I half hole to make the C's neutral, now if I want to play this same tune in the key of A major and I pick up an E whistle and finger the tune the same way I'm in the key of G.

No, you're in the key of A now.

But my question is what exactly happens to those f sharps and c neutrals? Do I have to change the fingering for those 2 or can I just finger the whole tune exactly the same way, half holing the top hole etc. on the E whistle?

Exactly the same.

P.S. Also, if I was to just use a D whistle and finger it in A what would I have to do with those f's and C's?

To play in A major on a D whistle, you'll need to play F#, C# and G#.

Hope that helps!

[Blaydo]

No, you're in the key of A now.

Yeh sorry that's what I meant to say, 7am and still not in bed yet

To play in A major on a D whistle, you'll need to play F#, C# and G#.

Hope that helps!

Certainly does! And thanks MTGuru too for explaining that, so the key of A has 3 sharps F C & G, I didn't know that, DOH! If you don't mind a follow up question, so the only new thing I have to learn here is that G#, how do I finger that? Is it the top 2 fingers down and half hole with the 3rd finger? Oh and is there some other cross fingering option for it?

[markbell]

Blaydo,
There are probably cross fingerings, but I half-hole the G#, as I do all other accidentials. For me, when I realized that cross-fingerings didn't always work consistently across different whistles, I decided to learn to half-hole.

The two most common I use are (on a D whistle) C-nat and G#. That gives me the keys of D, G, and A, plus all the relative minor keys. If I need more than one accidental, either sharp or flat, then I switch to a different whistle.

Mark

[Blaydo]

I understand markbell, I half hole the F-nats and C-nats most of the time. I'm just curious if theres a cross fingering option for G# on a D whistle. Also I still don't know how to even half hole to get a G# on a D whistle, what fingers exactly?

[Blaydo]

Oh wait, I remembered there was a chart linked on this site somewhere, just found it! :
http://www.fullbodyburn.com/images/charts/01-D.jpg

So I guessed right that it's top 2 fingers down and half holing the 3rd one. Also shows some cross fingering options. Excellent! I'm gonna have to study all this key structuring, those posts have helped a lot but I can see I've more to learn.

[markbell]

Here's a chart that I just created with the scales and accidentals for half-hole method.

Hope it's useful for you!

[Blaydo]

Here's a chart that I just created with the scales and accidentals for half-hole method.

Hope it's useful for you!

Certainly is! Thanks. I was ok with the fingering as I just got it from the other chart, but this filled another gap in my music theory knowledge. I may as well tell you what I learnt from it even if it makes me look thick. When I was working out how to finger the G# and came to the correct conclusion, I was thinking "wait now I could be wrong, that looks like an A flat", I wasn't thinking that they could be the same thing, so now that all makes sense to me! Also I didn't even know those small letter b's in for eg. Ab just meant flat.

Thanks all for clearing all that up! I never did practice or learn much about the actual scales, my ears were telling me I was correct, but I wasn't sure if I should trust them as I didn't understand the theory behind it all. I'm learning more and more by ear only now because the guys I play with are forever singing trad songs which I either can't find the music for or they're doing them in different keys. I never thought I'd be able to do it but it's got to the point where I find it quicker and easier to play along with them by ear, not on the fly yet but to recordings I've made of the sessions. I've found that sheet music just kept throwing me off as it rarely matched what the others were actually playing, for songs at least. For trickier tunes though I'm still using ear and dots to learn, but the ears are taking over more and more of this as time goes on and most tunes are in memory after playing them two or three times. I'm getting there, it's all good!

[talasiga]

Understanding theory is good but trusting a good ear
is trusting something that can discern things that theory
cannot wholly cover.

Even good sheet music (and all sheet music relies on a theoretical system)
cannot detail the timbre of a note.

Good understanding is that which helps to unclutter the mind and open it to flexibility.

[markbell]

Blaydo,

Glad to hear you are gaining confidence with playing by year. It took me a long time to trust my instincts when playing with a group. However, most of what I play, folks usually just have lead sheets (words and chords), which doesn't help much on whistle. Also, even if the melody were written out, it's not necessarily what you always want to play.

I grew up as the typical American band student - play the written notes, and only the written notes! Then I got involved in vocal music - choir - and it was still all about learning the intricacies of the arrangement. All well and good for those musical forms, but I've found it more useful and more fun to overcome my terror of making a "mistake" and learn to improvise and play by year.

Mark

[talasiga]

.......
Glad to hear you are gaining confidence with playing by year
................
more fun to overcome my terror of making a "mistake" and learn to improvise and play by year.

Mark

yearmark this quote!

[markbell]

That's what happens when I'm posting and not wearing my reading glasses.

It's Freudian. It takes me so long to get noticeably better, that perhaps I am indeed playing by year.