Just Intonation drones (not necessarily flute question)

[MTGuru]

What pitch are UP drones ?

The tenor drone matches the chanter D. The baritone drone is 1 octave below, the bass drone 2 octaves below.

[BigDavy]

Well you could use this http://www.kmbagpipes.com/vid.html for C drones

David

[eskin]

In my opinion, for flute, I would suggest that rather than look for drones in all possible notes, just use the equal temperament D and G as your root tones, and play against them and try to achieve a consonant sound.

Unless you have perfect pitch (I don't), the skill is to adjust your intonation to be consonant with a scale root, not to play a correct frequency for a specific root pitch. In reality, you will have to adjust to the intonation of your fellow players, so picking a fixed pitch reference may not serve any real benefit.

If you're playing with a set of well designed concert pitch Uilleann pipes that is in tune, everything is going to be on a D just intonation scale, so you might want to practice G tunes against a D drone to see how that feels compared to practicing against a G drone.

[Denny]

ack, with an Eb flute he might be better lookin' for a piano player

[david_h]

If you're playing with a set of well designed concert pitch Uilleann pipes that is in tune, everything is going to be on a D just intonation scale, so you might want to practice G tunes against a D drone to see how that feels compared to practicing against a G drone.

Thanks, that answers a question I have asked several times and never got an answer to. The follow on question is for confirmation that that includes tunes in E dorian, for which a D drone and a just intoned D scale are not the most obvious. I like playing them over an E drone but wonder if that encourages an 'un-irish' sounding intonation.

[FluteDude]

ack, with an Eb flute he might be better lookin' for a piano player

Would be my pleasure. Piano and irish trad is a good fit.

In my opinion, for flute, I would suggest that rather than look for drones in all possible notes, just use the equal temperament D and G as your root tones, and play against them and try to achieve a consonant sound.

Unless you have perfect pitch (I don't), the skill is to adjust your intonation to be consonant with a scale root, not to play a correct frequency for a specific root pitch. In reality, you will have to adjust to the intonation of your fellow players, so picking a fixed pitch reference may not serve any real benefit.

You mean that I shouldn't (for example) try to fit only the F note to an F drone?
I wasn't thinking of that either.

[talasiga]

flutedude, here is a nice article about drones:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_(music)

[talasiga]

and just intonation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation

[david_h]

Ah, wait a minute, FluteDude, are you really looking for drones or for reference tones to practice each note against ? If you play a tune in D over a drone in D then the presence of the drone draws all the notes you play towards the just intoned scale based on D.

Is what you are after a list of the pitches of a just intoned scale starting at Eb so that you can generate tones to practice playing the notes against one by one ? Which is what your synthesizer may not do. But if you like the idea of playing with a piano isn't what it will do what you want ?

Edit - OK FluteDude I see your edit to clarify, thanks.

[FluteDude]

david_h, it is the former. I'm not going to practice playing only the Eb note to an Eb drone, but an entire (transposed) tune in Eb.

I have already used the synth to create drones now. I have them on my mp3-player for quick and portable access.
It works fine, so thanks all.


Talasiga, I had read those wikipedia pages before asking here. Or maybe I should say misread, since I didn't understand that pitch in Just Intonation is relative.

[talasiga]

please consider also timbre.
compare between a "dead" note as on a keyboard with little timbre and one rich in harmonic overtones
as in a human voice or the well played note struck by a cello. The natural harmonic overtones you hear are just.

If you play even a single "dead" note as a drone (as opposed to a just intoned open fifth drone as predominant in indic music) for your flute practice, you are likely to reach a just intoned scale against it naturally because we are hard wired to hearing and evincing natural intonations. There is no need to measuure whether something you hear as "in tune" is in fact in tune unless
1) your "in tune" is about equal temperament which is not a natural intonation
2) there is some interference in the drone from ET instruments

[FluteDude]

Hmm.

Are you saying that a "dead" note is a better drone to practice to, because it makes me automatically strive for Just Intonation without getting "tipped off" by the natural harmonics?

[talasiga]

no, I neither said that, nor meant to imply that

[FluteDude]

Nevermind. Misread you.

[talasiga]

while I was on the road I noticed another post just here providing a link to just intoned open fifths (a western music site). Its been removed and now that I am back at home I cannot check it out.

disappointed.