Advice on staining boxwood with nitric acid?

[JessieK]

Is there anyone who can tell me how to stain a boxwood flute with nitric acid?

[Denny]

Loren

I'd guess
Terry McGee
Casey Burns

and some of the less frequent posting makers

[Jon C.]

Hi Jessie,
I would recommend calling Rod Cameron, as he is the master of Nitric staining.
I never tried it, as I never found a good source of nitric acid, kind of hard to find with all the bomb makers out there... Have a source for getting nitric acid?
The way I was going to do it, is make a chamber, using large PVC pipe, with a clear viewing window, hang flute in center, use open container of nitric acid with iron nail if you want a orange color,in bottom of container, fume wood, naturalize in linseed oil bath. Do it in open air, with lots of protective gear! Would be fun to do...
I just use aniline dyes, but that is too safe...

[boyd]

My pal Rory plays an unstained boxwood chanter on an unstained boxwood set.

Over several years it darkened and matured, and 5 or 6 years on it is a most wonderful colour that it would NEVER have been if it had been stained.



Boyd

[Maihcol]

There's quite a bit about it in the archives on the Earlyflute list - Rod Cameron has described his technique for staining boxwood there in the past.

I used to have a barrel of it in the workshop in the early nineties for dipping old student saxophones before relaquering but it may well be more difficult to come by now.

Garry.

[boyd]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_z8q ... id&f=false

but I still say the natural look is SO much better, and will appear magically in front of your eyes over about 5 years (and continues as time passes)

Boyd

[Terry McGee]

Is there anyone who can tell me how to stain a boxwood flute with nitric acid?

I'm reminded of the old joke:

Q: How do hedgehogs make love?
A: Cautiously.

Yes, Rod's your man. I have done it years ago, both by wiping it on (cautiously!) and fuming (in a poly bag to act as a tent). I can't remember what I used to neutralise it (you don't want to leave the surface acidic and then apply it to your lips!), but one would normally imagine a mild alkali, such as bicarb of soda solution. And some pH paper if you want to be analytic about it.

A risk would be that an aqueous solution might raise the grain - and rubbing it back would take off the colouring. I don't remember that being an issue when I did it. I would have been careful to have the outside polished to my satisfaction before the staining.

I remember Rod saying he uses linseed oil for neutralisation - my organic chemistry is too far behind me to know if that would really neutralise it, or perhaps just dilute and imprison it - maybe we have a practical chemist among us that could advise? I'm sure Rod's done plenty, so it must work on some level.

I generally try to use hair dyes in staining, to avoid the use of such dangerous chemicals. You can take the item to the pharmacy to match the colour charts. Only mix up enough of the goup to do the job, you'll probably need a couple of sessions to get the colour you want.

Terry

[Irish Marine]

Will ammonia neutralize it Terry? I thought I had heard of that being done before. My Chemistry is llloonnnggg behind me, thank goodness!

[Casey Burns]

A number of things about acid staining. I don't do it as I don't like having Nitric Acid around. Vapors rust iron quickly. But this is some of what I have gleaned.

Some iron has to be dissolved into the acid - a couple of nails (ungalvanized!) will do for a batch. This helps "fix" the color.

Ammonia (vapor, as in smelling salts) can be used for immediate neutralization. But a long soak in a warm bath of Linseed will neutralized it as well.

Rod is the master at this!

Why not try other staining methods? Analine Dyes work well. Douglas Steinke, who helped me get started years ago, stained his boxwood oboes using various hair dyes, which are widely available. Leather dyes are another quick source as well as artist supplies. However, use the dyes in the mixed form and stay away from the powders and mixing your own - as breathing the dyes can kill you (it destroys the liver).

Casey

[JessieK]

Hmm. This sounds like something I should not do while pregnant.

I guess I'll be patient and wait for it to turn orange on its own.

[psychodonald]

JessieK: I to have a Box Wood Flute. I admit that I to have thought it might "look better" a little darker. I've also learned that when I start thinking that way it's usually a prelude to screwing things up royally. I really like the sound of my flute and what if changing the color, in some way messed up the flute???? With my luck, putting it in some acid bath, I would end up with something that would resemble a dark toothpick. I guess I'm just chicken, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Lots of luck, Don.

[Cathy Wilde]

My pal Rory plays an unstained boxwood chanter on an unstained boxwood set.

Over several years it darkened and matured, and 5 or 6 years on it is a most wonderful colour that it would NEVER have been if it had been stained.



Boyd

I'm glad to hear this. I have a natural boxwood chanter & now have a set of drones coming that are a combination of nitric-stained (drones) and unstained (mainstock) boxwoods -- and yeah, I've been wondering how they'll look with my unstained chanter. (I think it's a residual old-fashioned-girl thing about having your purse and shoes match ) I also have a nitric-stained flute that's the most fantastic amber so I guess that's "colored" my preference a bit.

But I'll wait and trust in the process. Thank you guys for all your learned commentary, and thanks for the question, Jessie!

[Feadoggie]

Is there anyone who can tell me how to stain a boxwood flute with nitric acid?

I don't have much to add here. Rod Cameron is the apparent expert. I recall reading an article in Woodwind Quarterly on his staining process back in the mid 1990's.

Yep, I just had a look through the index of back issues and there was an article in issue #9.
http://www.musictrader.com/wwqindex.html#9

Copies of that issue are still available directly from Lars Kirmser at the same website.

Feadoggie

[JessieK]

Thanks, Feadoggie! I have the back issues of WWQ somewhere, and I'll try ti to find it one of these days.

[flutefry]

There's a nice photo of an acid-stained box flute in the thread above with the Wilkes for sale (shameless plug).

Hugh