Where to start

[fluteguy18]

Hi,

I'm sure that you get this sort of question all the time, but with the plethora of information available here, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. I'm a classical flutist and in about a year I will be moving to Los Angeles to *hopefully* study with Jim Walker (top classical and ethnic flutist in the film/studio recording scene... you might recognize his playing from the movie Titanic). Seeing as how I hope to be entering the studio scene myself I am wanting to branch out into the ethnic/folk instruments and the whistle is at the top of my list. Where do I start? I want to purchase a set that will cover the most keys possible (high and low). Money is obviously a concern, but I understand that investing in instruments is important too. In terms of sound, the sound that I want is something a little bit more mellow and a little less edge/airy-ness to the sound (maybe a dense plastic or wooden type). I know this probably makes some of your stomachs turn, but that sort of sound blends a bit better in an orchestra setting when recording. They also need to be tunable.

Does anyone have a recommendation? Brand? I've heard good things about the Susato whistles. Right now I have a Feadog in D (made in 2006), but I hate it. The tone is okay, but starting in the upper half of the 2nd octave (G and above to be precise) the notes are not stable whatsoever.

Anyway. Thanks for reading. I know you probably get this all the time, but I really have no idea how to jump into folk music coming from a classical background.

[brewerpaul]

As a classical musician, be prepared to UNLEARN some things, most notably ornamentation. Even though trad music sometimes uses the same symbols they are played TOTALLY differently and serve a different purpose musically. I came to this from being a pretty serious amateur recorder player, so I know wherein I speak.

Get a copy of Bill Ochs' "The Clarke Tinwhistle" and go through the lessons step by step, even the most basic ones teaching musical notation, which you obviously already know. Take it nice and slowly and you'll learn a huge amount from this book/cd combo.
Don't totally sideline your Boehm flute-- listen to Joanie Madden of Cherish the Ladies and hear how it can be used for this type of music. Down the road a bit, you may be finding yourself looking for an Irish style flute.

Hold off on buying a huge set of whistles right now. All you need for starters is a decent D whistle. Although I haven't played them, people highly recommend Jerry Freeman's modified whistles. While you're learning, try to play as many whistles as you can until you decide exactly what characteristics you want in a whistle. At that point, you'll make a better decision before laying out the big bucks. You may even decide that you're perfectly happy with the inexpensive ones, which have a charm of their own. Don't be surprised if you find your current cheapie sounding pretty good once you're a better trad player.

[pipersgrip]

Chris Abell makes a large variety of keys, but his are pretty expensive if you buy a whole set.

[MTGuru]

Hi fluteguy, welcome.

I guess a basic question is if you're interested in a commitment to learning trad, or more just adding a doubling tool to a bag of shakuhachis, quenas, kavals, etc. and other "ethnic" instruments. The two goals are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but might involve a different choice of whistles, and entail a different mindset.

There's another poster here on the board who I'm sure will weigh in on this.

[Jason Paul]

You might spend some time at Tony Hinnigan's site: http://www.tonyhinnigan.com. He played the whistle (and apparently a cello solo) on Titanic, and has played on several other movie soundtracks as well. He also plays other ethnic flutes.

Jason

[chas]

If you want a "set" of whistles and you don't want to pay too much, you might try Generations first. These have the classic whistle sound.

As a clarinet player, you might like Susatos, which can also be had in sets and are not too expensive. These come in sets of three or so bodies per head piece. These have a nice rich pure sound but require a lot of control in order not to peel the paint in the upper register.

Going beyond that, the other whistles that come in many keys start getting pretty expensive -- Burke, Goldie, etc. If the less-expensive whistles don't suit you, you might think of getting 2-3 high-enders for the more common keys and the weird keys like E from Susato.

[hoopy mike]

If you want a "set" of whistles and you don't want to pay too much, you might try Generations first. These have the classic whistle sound.

Well, I have most of the Generation set, but I rarely play them, since the Eb, F and G don't seem to have good intonation (at least when I play them). The C is okish, some people like the Bb a lot too.

It depends how much of a set you need. If the whistle is just one of the "ethnic wind instruments" in your arsenal, then I'd stick with a few, perhaps in D, C and Bb. That'll give you a good coverage, since a D whistle can easily play in G (major) and at a push in A major (see recent threads for how many modes a whislte can cover). I even played live with a D whistle in E major at the weekend with a little half-holing (along with tabla, keyboard and electric guitar!)

And if you're playing with a few other instruments, can you persuade the guitarist / keyboard player to change into a whistle-friendly key instead of having to buy another instrument that you might only use once?

Just my thoughts...

[MikeS]

I'm sorry if this is a smidge off-topic, but I'd like to recommend a resource you might find useful. Brian McCoy, of the Kells Band, has a DVD titled "Irish Music on the Classical Flute." I found it to be very well put together and full of a lot of good information on ornamentation and style. More information can be found here:

http://www.instruction.kellsband.com/le ... Flute.html

I should probably add that while I've had the pleasure of hearing Brian perform several times, and met him once, I've got no commercial stake in this. It just struck me as something you might find useful.

I've also come to ITM from a classical background in trombone and tuba. One of the things that struck me right away was the amount of breath adjustment you have to make to play whistles in tune. This has made me place a lot of value on whistles with good intonation characteristics. It just allows me to pay more attention to other aspects of learning the music. I've by no means tried every whistle around, but I've found Sindts and Burkes to be at the top of my list for consistent intonation and response. I happen to like the sound of the Sindts better so that's where I've put my money.

[fluteguy18]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I bet Jim and Tony know each other since they both did whistle work on Titanic and so many other films. Jim is more of a classical/jazz player, but he can definitely hold his own on any ethnic flute you hand to him. I hope to do the same.

My goal is really just to be a doubler on as many ethnic flutes as possible, but yet I want to be as genuine and authentic as possible within those parameters. I came across Abell whistles yesterday and I like the audio clips I have heard so far. I think I might invest in one or two once I have my feet wet.

And yes (to whomever mentioned it), I am in search of a good irish style flute as well. I actually think that it will probably be an easier transition than to whistle (even though I can already play a pretty mean recorder ). I will probably post a thread in the other section on this board soon.

Any other suggestions? I have a method book for the whistle (it might even be the one mentioned above) and it seems like it has a lot of great stuff in it. It's nice to go back and play the music of my ancestors.... well... close to it anyway. My ancestors were scots.

Oh! Quick question. In my book it just says to cover the holes, but I see a lot of videos online of people playing and I am curious. As a classical player I've always been taught to cover holes with the pads of my fingers. Is this true for whistles too? Or should you cover them more like this? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enh-9R0kuss

[crookedtune]

My goal is really just to be a doubler on as many ethnic flutes as possible, but yet I want to be as genuine and authentic as possible within those parameters.

Ah, going for the quantity AND the quality. Nothing wrong with aiming high, I suppose, as long as you're realistic about your progress along the curve.

[Feadoggie]

Oh! Quick question. In my book it just says to cover the holes, but I see a lot of videos online of people playing and I am curious. As a classical player I've always been taught to cover holes with the pads of my fingers. Is this true for whistles too? Or should you cover them more like this? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enh-9R0kuss

What you see employed in that video is the "piper's grip". For most high whistles you would use the pads of the fingers to cover the holes as you have observed. If you have average size hands that will work for whistles pitched down to say Bb or A. Somewhere around there many players have difficulty with the stretch between holes. So necessity becomes the mother of invention. The piper's grip allows us to play lower pitched instruments without the bother of adding expensive and noisy keys. The piper's grip uses the pad of the first joint on the ring fingers and the fleshy parts of the second joint to cover the holes with the other fingers.

Here's a good description: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68003

Welcome to C&F.

Feadoggie

[tin tin]

Here's a fantastic whistle tutorial: http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/

You might consider Burke whistles. They're very consistent between keys; if you're switching whistles frequently and value consistency and predictability, they'll deliver. http://www.burkewhistles.com/

As far as Irish flutes are concerned, there are quite a number of good options. Price and wait times can help narrow the field.
Here's a good resource: http://www.firescribble.net/flute/

A fine flute that delivers great tone and playability (with a good embouchure cut for someone used to modern-cut silver headjoints) and low maintainance (which could be a plus for a multi-instrumentalist) is Rob Forbes' delrin flute. http://forbesflutes.com/

[talasiga]

......Right now I have a Feadog in D (made in 2006), but I hate it.
.......

Perfect.
Play it until you hate it less.
When you like it, it will guide you well to other instruments.