Question about types of whistles for sessions

[straycat82]

Also, the extra volume most high-end whistles have can be a plus when sitting in on a really large session. There's been sessions where I couldn't hear myself and nobody else could hear me on my Generation.

I have the same issues with my Sindt. I have come to the point that I save my Sindt for my personal enjoyment or situations where microphones are involved. I love the Sindt whistle but I can never hear it over the Burkes and Copelands. I used to play Generations a lot and switched to Feadogs for the same reason (to hear myself, not to be heard). At one point though, I had a Burke session bore whistle but I could hear myself so well that I could barely hear anyone else so I ditched that one. I've always been curious to try one of the Burke narrow bore whistles but I'm happy enough with the Feadog, Generation and Sindt group I have that it hasn't motivated me to pay the ever-increasing price for a Burke. I have, since then, discovered different postures and embouchures that seem to help the whistle "cut through" a bit and help me to hear myself without having to resort to playing out the side of my mouth (which results in less-than-optimum embouchure).

[straycat82]

Although let me add that the best, most in-tune, sessions with multiple whistles have been when all the whistles are "cheapos". And I'm talking 3 or 4 whistles, all of them Feadogs or Generations or the like. Adding a Burke or Copeland or some other expensive whistle invariably causes tuning issues and / or severe volume imbalance issues.

I'm curious to see what you think on the topic of playing, for example, Gens and Feadogs in the same session. I'm certainly no virtuoso and I know that my intonation can use some work but I've found it very irritating to play a Feadog whistle next to someone playing a Generation and visa-versa.
The tuning on those two makes is just so different that it drives my ear nuts (and I don't even have perfect pitch). This, of course, would exclude Gens that were modified to play in equal tuning or Feadogs that are modified to play just. I've never put that kind of tonehole work (as pancelticpiper has indicated on his whistles) into mine. I've consistently applied tape to Gens to bring the G down a bit but that's about all the tweaking I've done to the bodies. I play mostly along with my cousin and have gotten in the habit of keeping both Gen and Feadog with me so that we can play the same. I play the Feadog mostly as we typically have a concertina player at the session. I like the gens (esp. brass) for playing with pipers.

[Belgian_Waffle]

In my limited experience, most of the players in Belgium play tuneable whistles (Burke, Overton, etc.). Which is a good thing considering the joke : "How do you get two whistleplayers to play in tune ? Shoot one of them !".

[NicoMoreno]

In my limited experience, most of the players in Belgium play tuneable whistles (Burke, Overton, etc.). Which is a good thing considering the joke : "How do you get two whistleplayers to play in tune ? Shoot one of them !".

Feadogs and Generations are just as tunable as Burkes and Overtons.

I'm curious to see what you think on the topic of playing, for example, Gens and Feadogs in the same session. I'm certainly no virtuoso and I know that my intonation can use some work but I've found it very irritating to play a Feadog whistle next to someone playing a Generation and visa-versa.

Well, the one session I'm thinking of had four whistles: a Feadog, a Feadog Pro, an old Generation and either another old Generation or possibly a Feadog... but I'm 90% sure it was a Generation. None of them were carved, although the one gen might have some tape, (MTGuru would know, as he's no doubt seen it quite a bit) but at any rate, pretty much untouched, all of them. The tuning was fine. Maybe the four musicians (two pipers and two fiddlers) are just better at blowing the whistles into tune. I don't know, really, but like I said, it was great fun and sounded fine to me. More than fine, in fact!

Now, I always thought that the Feadogs were nominally in "Just Intonation" and the Gens were sort of somewhere in between Equal and Just. I don't really know, I've never bothered with an electronic tuner to check, since to my mind that's a futile approach. If I ever got around to it, I suppose I could check using that program from the flute board. But even still, the whistles are easily blown from one to the other, so I've always just relied on my ear and matching those I'm playing with.

On a side note (and not directed at anyone in particular), I don't really agree with the whole "buy a louder whistle for a big session mentality". I definitely think anything louder than a Feadog is too loud, usually (especially?) in the second octave. If the session is too loud for that, then the session is either two big or in a bad environment. Neither really makes me want to join in.

[straycat82]

The more I play in sessions the more I enjoy the smaller ones. I don't find that I get as much enjoyment out of a room of 10-15 people as I do in a session of 5-8 players. It's harder to have the craic with a bigger group I think.

[BigDavy]

Well this thread pretty well describes me and my faults. Crap whistle player with lots of designer whistles and bodhran player to boot

If I am in a session, especially a large one - a whistle player is a boon, as a whistle (or fife) is the one thing that will be heard above the cacophony and that means I can hear the tune. To put it bluntly, in the context of this thread, there is no high D whistle that has been played in any session I have been in, except when there are more than 5 or so whistle players, that I have been unable to hear each individual whistle (pipes, banjo or accordion can be drowned out, but not whistle).

David

[Tim2723]

David, I simply must ask. What the devil do you have at your session that drowns out pipes, banjos, and accordions?

[Steve Bliven]

David, I simply must ask. What the devil do you have at your session that drowns out pipes, banjos, and accordions?

Chain saws ?

Best wishes.

Steve

[BigDavy]

David, I simply must ask. What the devil do you have at your session that drowns out pipes, banjos, and accordions?

Hi Tim

It is usually one of two things a herd of guitarists strumming away (in the wrong rhythm usually) but more often the punters in the bar. Once they get a few drinks in them the noise levels go up till you can't hear yourself think - never mind play. There was one time in the Oran Mor session in Glasgow and I was sitting right next to a banjo player and an uilleann piper and couldn't make out the tune they were playing, but I could hear the person sitting across the circle from me playing a whistle.

My normal reaction to this is to stop trying to play and just go home, it is not worth the aggravation.

David

[Tim2723]

Oh, thanks. That explains it. I've often wondered how remarkable it is that traditional musicians will work so hard to keep the music intact, yet the pubs continue to change for the louder. I'll bet in Grandad's time the pubs were quiet enough to play. I suppose someday we'll all give in and use amplifiers. Of course, then the punters will yell all the louder, so we'll use bigger amplifiers...

[MTGuru]

I'll bet in Grandad's time the pubs were quiet enough to play.

Actually, in granddad's day (at least my granddad), I don't think pubs were places for sessions at all, barring the occasional drunken song or recitation.

(But I hate loud pubs and mega-sessions, too.)

[boyd]

Well I don't think it matters much.
A good session should be about the people and how they get on, after all
its not really a public performance, it should be about a few friends having
a pint and a tune. Of course I realise in this strange world we inhabit there
are a few session monsters around, willing to be rude.
And there are some sessions where the main players are actually professional
and plaing top-dollar stuff. Just listen to those sessions, unless they invite you in!!!
And what whistle?
Play what you want, its the quality of the playing that really matters,
that will shine through on a good OR a not-so-good whistle.

The ideal whistle player will play intermittently, probably have a main instrument (pipes, flute, fiddle, banjo etc) or
at least an alternative (erm...bodhran? Jews harp? mouth organ?!), and maybe even a few different keys of whistle just to
break up the monotony of ear-piercing high notes. A low D and a Bflat for instance.
I often play the odd whistle duet with a good friend in sessions, and the other instruments
(apart from a guitar) take a break.
And I find a quieter whistle is a handy yoke for if you are one of those people that
can learn a tune by ear on the spot, lets you tootle along and work it out without anyone hearing you make the odd bum note.

And finally.....its good to cross-fertilise your music, and sessions are great for that....but by crikey, I really hate them sometimes (well, they play so much Scottish stuff over here!!)

B

[BigDavy]

Hi Boyd

You will not find me complaining about that - It may get me lynched on the UP forum if I said it, but I my ideal listening situation is Scottish tunes played on uilleann pipes - I think that the UP and strathspeys were made for each other.

David

[pancelticpiper]

It may get me lynched on the UP forum if I said it, but I my ideal listening situation is Scottish tunes played on uilleann pipes - I think that the UP and strathspeys were made for each other.

True enough that there are loads of Scottish fiddle tunes that don't fit on the Scottish pipes, but do fit on the uilleann pipes. Ditto with loads of Scottish folksongs. Let's face it: the uilleann pipes are more flexible.

Every year I'm hired to play pipes at a Robbie Burns dinner, and at one point I take out the uilleann pipes and play some Burns songs that come out quite mangled on the Scottish pipes.

[Ballyshannon]

Well I don't think it matters much.
A good session should be about the people and how they get on, after all
its not really a public performance, it should be about a few friends having
a pint and a tune. Of course I realise in this strange world we inhabit there
are a few session monsters around, willing to be rude.
And there are some sessions where the main players are actually professional
and plaing top-dollar stuff. Just listen to those sessions, unless they invite you in!!!
And what whistle?
Play what you want, its the quality of the playing that really matters,
that will shine through on a good OR a not-so-good whistle.

The ideal whistle player will play intermittently, probably have a main instrument (pipes, flute, fiddle, banjo etc) or
at least an alternative (erm...bodhran? Jews harp? mouth organ?!), and maybe even a few different keys of whistle just to
break up the monotony of ear-piercing high notes. A low D and a Bflat for instance.
I often play the odd whistle duet with a good friend in sessions, and the other instruments
(apart from a guitar) take a break.
And I find a quieter whistle is a handy yoke for if you are one of those people that
can learn a tune by ear on the spot, lets you tootle along and work it out without anyone hearing you make the odd bum note.

Well said, and echoes my views and our session atmosphere 100%.

BTW, the main pipes player in our area who plays both Highland and Uilleann pipes, uses electronic pipes in session to easily control volume and pitch. Paired with a good quality amp/speaker, it sounds fine in the mix.