playing Flat sets with others

[Tim H]

Hi.
When playing flat sets do most people play solo and or in 'flat session' or with others ie fiddle, box etc.

I am most interested in a B set and fiddle. B on a fiddle is not easy so are there any short cuts to help the fiddler. A fiddle maker here has offered to make a fiddle that plays in B using normal D fingering but obviously at a cost. We already have one of his fiddles which is fiddle sized but plays an octave lower than the normal fiddle and sounds a lot like a cello so we know he can do the job but are there other options. Please dont state the obvious ie get Becca to learn to play in B.

Many thanks. May see some of you in Taylorstown on Saturday.

Tim

[PJ]

Flat sessions do exist but are not all that common.

Fiddlers can down tune their fiddles to play with flat pipes - no extra cost!!

Have a listen to Mick O'Brien (pipes) and Caoimhin O'Raghalligh (fiddle) who play together on the CD Kitty Lie Over in B and Bb.

[billh]

See also Ronan Browne + Peadar O'Loughlin, Paddy Glackin + Robbie Hannan, and many other fiddle+pipe duos... there's no need for a special fiddle.

Some fiddles (especially recently made ones) don't like being tuned down more than two semitones, but others sound great. Often an older fiddle will sound especially good tuned down to B - in fact a fiddle that sounds mediocre at concert pitch will come into its own when tuned down. The fiddle player will need to get used to the different "feel", but I think the tone of the looser strings sounds better with the pipes anyhow.

Bear in mind that many "flat" pipes don't actually play in exactly the stated pitch - for instance many B sets play 20 to 30 cents flat of B. This means that playing with fixed pitch instruments such as accordions or concertinas may still be a problem.

Bill

[NicoMoreno]

Hi.
When playing flat sets do most people play solo and or in 'flat session' or with others ie fiddle, box etc.

I am most interested in a B set and fiddle. B on a fiddle is not easy so are there any short cuts to help the fiddler. A fiddle maker here has offered to make a fiddle that plays in B using normal D fingering but obviously at a cost. We already have one of his fiddles which is fiddle sized but plays an octave lower than the normal fiddle and sounds a lot like a cello so we know he can do the job but are there other options. Please dont state the obvious ie get Becca to learn to play in B.

Many thanks. May see some of you in Taylorstown on Saturday.

Tim

Sounds like he's trying to rip you off! Take your fiddle... tune the E string to C#, A string to F#, D string to B, and G string to E. Fine tune to match those notes on the pipes. That's it, done! No cost!

Now, if it doesn't sound good, you might want to put heavier strings on it. And some fiddles sound really good in B, and some are a little floppy sounding, so you may want a second fiddle that's either set-up a little different, or just happens to play really well in B. That's what Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh does.

[MTGuru]

Yeah, a special fiddle to play flat is just silly.

Think of it this way. The basic fiddle design and size has not changed since the days of Amati and Stradivari. Yet during that time the concert pitch standard has wandered all over the place, from F below A440 to B above. Fiddlers have been setting up their instruments to play in this range for hundreds of years, and you can, too.

And no, fiddlers wouldn't normally play B tunes in B fingering. You lose the fingerings, ornaments, crossings, open strings, etc. that make the tune. Just set up and detune to the pipes and you're good to go.

[Nanohedron]

A fiddle maker here has offered to make a fiddle that plays in B using normal D fingering but obviously at a cost.

As others here have already said, I should think that there's really no need for a specially-made fiddle for B tuning. But, I'm no fiddler. I know one fiddler who has two fiddles, one for D and one for B, but they're both regular nothing-special fiddles otherwise. The only reason she has two is that she uses both regularly and doesn't want to compromise string integrity by constantly re-tuning. Also, she told me that she uses regular strings for the B-tuned fiddle. Nothing special there, either, other than the pitch.

Perhaps setup for a dedicated B-tuned fiddle might be different?

[Ted]

In the day of Amati and Stradivari, the pitch was often lower than A440. The necks on most of the old master's instruments were often shortened due to the rising of pitch standards as time went on. There is usually a scarf joint on them where the nut is. These old instruments and later copies of their design really come alive when tuned down. Some modern makers are modifying their instruments to sound better at modern pitch.

[Mike Hulme]

If you want a "fiddle" that will sound reasonably good when detuned a tone and a half then you might as well go for a small viola, say 15" body length. This is only 1" longer than a full sized violin, and the slight increase in finger spacing is easily managed. Getting strings for such a "fiddle" might be more of a problem, but you could try small size viola strings. I have put these strings on one and the tone isn't too bad, a little harsh on the "G" string but otherwise OK.

[Tim H]

Hi. Thanks for all the replys. Very useful. I should have said the maker offered the solution of a b fiddle if we could find no other way. He looked at it as an interesting exercise rather than a money spinner. Becca has a spare student instrument so we will try the various suggestions and report back

Tim

[samiam590]

My goodness that CD Kitty Lie Over...it's brilliant!

[Joseph]

I agree, I had heard about Kitty Lie Over but had never listened. Well, I am now officially smitten! The artistry and tastefulness of the songs (without breakneck speed) along flat pitch tone is magical. I feel as if I am sitting in someone's kitchen soaking in the authentic. Brilliant!

Can anyone tell what set Mick is playing on this album? Thanks

all the best,

[Jumper]

Can anyone tell what set Mick is playing on this album?

Two sets, both made by the late Alain Froment, in B and Bb.

http://www.socalpipers.com/tionol_2004.html

[rorybbellows]

After Alain Froments untimely death Mick was given possession of Alain's own C set ,the one with five regs which I think is the one in this photo.As far as I know Mick has four flat sets made by Alain Froment and the concert pitch set by William Rowsome.Thats a nice collection of pipes !


RORY

[boyd]

I've seen a fiddle player de-tune from D to B in less than 2 mins in a kitchen session, and when the 2 sets of B pipes werent playing and there was a flute in D and a tin whistle on the go, he just tuned right back up to D in a similarly impressive number of seconds.

I think the money for the second fiddle just went on drink and good living, in his case


Boyd

[O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago]

I'm pretty sure Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh plays Hardanger fiddle on Kitty Lie Over, which is tuned higher than violin. From lowest to highest it would be BEBF#, sometimes higher, depends on the instrument.