to apple or not to apple, that is the question...

[Berti66]

there is still a lot to consider.....and the price is one thing.
but then, I could always get an secondhand mac to start on and to see if I like it at all (people are upgrading all the time and macs seem to have a good resell value, where pc's don't)

All your input sure is of help, it makes me think of things I had not yet considered, and helps with narrowing choices to what suits me best.
As I see things right now, an Imac would suit me best....... I don't need something to log around, although I am now typing this on my laptop, which I find more comfortable (and less noisy) to work on.
So this is what I am aiming for if I get a chance to buy one, next thing is to decide how fast it should be, how much memory I need etc.

Yesterday night a visiting friend also gave glowing comments about his Macbook Pro, one of them it being so much easier to work and he would NEVER go back to a PC.
There we go...
Hope that "you get what you pay for" also is true for Apples.

Berti

[fearfaoin]

I faced the same situation a year ago. I bought a mac book pro after 15 yrs of pc. (and still using windows at work) The learning curve as steeper than I expected. I am still struggling with the mac file storage system. On a pc, you have a file. The file can have files. This makes for easy storage of photos and music. For example - photos -> holidays -> Xmas 2006 - > Bills party etc. The next year it's photos -> holidays -> Xmas 2007 - > Bills party etc. Apple works differently and no Apple "genius" has been able to show me how to do this is as simple and linear way as a pc. With thousands of photos and hundreds of categories, I still haven't found a way to organize them for quick, easy access. I have the same sort of issues organizing music that I've recorded and storing it on I-tunes. I'm sure if I'd started on Apple 15 yrs ago, I wouldn't have these issues, but the transition is still a challenge. There's a lot to like about mac books, but the transition from a pc hasn't been fun.

Apple file system works exactly the same as windows.
I'm not sure what you're running up against, but I've
always been able to do it the same way.

On a PC, files do not contain files. Directories contain
files and other directories. It is the same on a Mac.
Bring up the finder, and you'll find a listing of directories.
look in one of those directories and you'll find a list of
other directories and files. Look in one of those direc-
tories, and you'll find another list of directories and files,
etc. Same as using Windows Explorer.

In the finder, you can create a directory called "photos",
inside that you can create a directory called "holidays"
inside that "Xmas 2006" in that "Bills party". Then you
can put pictures in there.

iTunes does this for you already (look in the Music ->
iTunes music directory and you'll see a list of directories
named for each artist in your collection... look in one of
those directories, you'll see a list of directories for each
CD by that artist, and in there you'll see the files
containing each song on that CD), but you can tell
iTunes not to change the directory where you put your
music...

[Denny]

ya'd a thought that they both stole the idea from the same place

[fearfaoin]

ya'd a thought that they both stole the idea from the same place

Yes, they both stole it from Unix.
Though, Apples originally had a flat
FS (no subdirectories).

[s1m0n]

On a PC, files do not contain files. Directories contain files and other directories.

"Directory" isn't a term used much at the GUI level; it's a vestige from DOS you only see when you're interacting via command line. Windows calls them 'folders', not directories.

[fearfaoin]

"Directory" isn't a term used much at the GUI level; it's a vestige from DOS you only see when you're interacting via command line. Windows calls them 'folders', not directories.

You're right. I forgot about "folders".
Showing my "age".

[Wormdiet]

FWIW I have been very happy with my Dell laptop. it is 1.5 years old, one of the higher-end models. It does everything I need it to with a minimum of complaining. The main reason I wouldn't switch any time in the near future is that I have about $700 of PC-specific graphics software on it (One of the Adobe CS3 bundles). It has slowed *some* compared to when it was brand new, but Macs aren't immune to this.

I did order a 3-year security service with it. I don't visit sites likely to contain nasties, and malware has not been a big problem.

I have a gorgeous 24" desktop mac at school.
I miss the right-click. It really is the most noticeable difference.

I hate working on the mac, but it's because ALL the data on it is really stored on a central, overburdened file server. The macs are basically hugely expensive paperweights with a screen The computer itself is nice though.

I had an HP desktop for 4 years. It was *horrible*. It died twice in the first year, fortunately under warranty. Ugh. Never again.



Just a few more data points.

[emmline]

Speaking of apples, I'm weighing options for a smartphone switch. I am committed to the smartphone concept, because I do use the multitude of functions, including net access.
I have always had a Palm.
The newest, bestest Palm is the Pre, so far only available from Sprint (I'm on AT&T) but rumor has it that AT&T and Verizon may be getting it in January.
OTOH, iPhones are well established in the field.
Here's the big reason I want to switch from my current phone--a Palm Centro--to something else: Small screen size.
It's a middle-aged vision thing. It's a little too much of a strain to see small things on a 2.25" diagonal screen, and both Pre and iPhone have phone-sized screens.

I've read lots of comparisons and reviews, and both are fairly well liked. I'm kind of used to the physical keyboard of a Palm (which the Pre has) as opposed to the screen-based keyboard of the iPhone, but I think I'd adapt.
I know I want to keep my ultralingua language software (dictionaries/conjugators for French& Spanish) and it's not available on Blackberry platform at present, but is for Palm and iPhone.

[Paul]

When I got out of business and into animation studies (new degree) I switched from PC to Mac. I really love the way my Macs work intuitively. I got a 24" Imac and a Macbook Pro. I have had no software compatibility issues and at this point I will never go back to PCs again -

...Unless -

I decide to go into 3D with my animation concentration. If this is the case I will probably go back to PCs because of cost issues. advanced 3D renderings take mucho mucho RAM if you ever want to get it done. One of my teachers just got a home PC with something like 20GB of RAM. Of course if you are working in a studio they will probably have a bunch of really neat and expensive systems in place but still, it would be nice to be able to work from home as well if necessary. If I stay with 2D the I stay with Mac. No question there, really.

[fel bautista]

...I do agree with Emm about the Air. The lack of cd/dvd drive is annoying in a way. And it's just a hassle to have to lug around a portable one (although they work really well...my daughter has one for her Net Book and loves it). I'd much rather a MacBook Pro.

Been a mac guy since 1987 and I am in need of a new Intel Mac to get Snow Leopard. I would go with a 15 inch MacBook Pro myself. Failing that, there's an iMac. I think you still need to be virus aware, and practice safe computing practices. As the Mac gets more popular, the baddies will probably try something to hack in.

[Bloomfield]

...I do agree with Emm about the Air. The lack of cd/dvd drive is annoying in a way. And it's just a hassle to have to lug around a portable one (although they work really well...my daughter has one for her Net Book and loves it). I'd much rather a MacBook Pro.

Been a mac guy since 1987 and I am in need of a new Intel Mac to get Snow Leopard. I would go with a 15 inch MacBook Pro myself. Failing that, there's an iMac. I think you still need to be virus aware, and practice safe computing practices. As the Mac gets more popular, the baddies will probably try something to hack in.

Don't rule out the Air too quickly. I got the Air in June and love it. I don't consider the lack of the internal CD/DVD drive a problem, and while I have the external drive, I rarely use it. It's also fun to use the disc drive of another computer (Mac or PC) on the same wireless network to, for example, load software on the Air. The Mac I used before was the 15" Pro, and I have no idea how I managed to lug that around all the time. The Air weighs 3 pounds---sweet. I use it at work (hooking it up to a 24" monitor) and then take it home & traveling, having everything I need with me.

About the virus point: I doubt that as Macs get more popular the virus threat will increase significantly. Unlike DOS/Windows/Vista, there just aren't the many dark corners where you can hide malicious and executable stuff in Mac OS because it is built on UNIX. Mac OS is inherently safer (that doesn't mean that vulnerabilities don't exist at all, mind you).

I am looking forward to Snow Leopard (picking it up this week): It reduces the size of the operating system by about 6GB and adds new safety features, and full MS Exchange support.

[emmline]

The Mac I used before was the 15" Pro, and I have no idea how I managed to lug that around all the time.

Didn't you have a lackey? I hope you didn't sack him.

[chas]

Here's the big reason I want to switch from my current phone--a Palm Centro--to something else: Small screen size.
It's a middle-aged vision thing. It's a little too much of a strain to see small things on a 2.25" diagonal screen, and both Pre and iPhone have phone-sized screens.

Em, I got my wife an iPhone for Christmas last year, and, despite my doubts, she loves it, uses it all the time, blah, blah, blah (She doesn't use it as a phone that much.) And she has serious middle-age eyes. The great thing about it that way is the accelerometer -- if the type is too small, the first thing to do is turn it on its side, and it fills the screen sideways. If that's still too small, put teo fingers on it and pull them apart and it still gets bigger.

She uses it as her exclusive e-book reader, too.

[fearfaoin]

About the virus point: I doubt that as Macs get more popular the virus threat will increase significantly. Unlike DOS/Windows/Vista, there just aren't the many dark corners where you can hide malicious and executable stuff in Mac OS because it is built on UNIX. Mac OS is inherently safer (that doesn't mean that vulnerabilities don't exist at all, mind you).

I'd like to think this is true, but the facts don't
seem to bear it out, and it leads us Mac users
into a false sense of security.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10004048-16.html
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/19954/53/

I think the problem is somewhat in our language.
An OS might have a "vulnerability", a problem in
the OS itself which allows a program to access
things it shouldn't be able to.
If someone has found that vulnerability, they
could devise an "exploit", a method for using that
vulnerability to access things that shouldn't be
accessible.
Once that exploit is made public, malicious coders
can use it to create "viruses" (or other malware).

So there are steps in the process: finding a
vulnerability, devising an exploit, releasing the
exploit, creating viruses. OS X, Linux, various
Unix flavors, these all have plenty of vulnerabilities.
Either these are patched more quickly (as the open
source community brags), or people don't find an
exploit before the OS is patched. (Though, often
with closed software no one realizes the vulnerability
is there until an exploit is found.) Don't fool yourself
into thinking Apple will always be immune to viruses.
There are vulnerabilities in the OS that are just
waiting for people to come up with exploits.

If OS X didn't have such, it wouldn't need to add
new security features to fix a sandbox exploit.
And while we're at it, why is Apple making you buy
a security patch that could be a free update to
Leopard???

[MikeS]

Speaking of apples, I'm weighing options for a smartphone switch...The newest, bestest Palm is the Pre, so far only available from Sprint (I'm on AT&T) but rumor has it that AT&T and Verizon may be getting it in January.

You might want to consider this before committing to the Pre. I would want better assurances from Palm than the, "Just trust us," response they have offered so far.

From PC World:

Is Palm watching you? If you bought one of its snazzy new Palm Pre phones, the answer is apparently yes -- and not just sometimes, either. According to Palm Pre hacker Joey Hess, the Pre's WebOS constantly logs usage data, including which applications you use, when, and for how long; it catalogs every app you have installed on your phone; it tracks the system state following application crashes; and it even tracks your location, obtained via GPS. All of these logs are sent back to Palm on a daily basis.

Could anyone even feign surprise that Palm Pre customers would be disturbed by this? It's one thing to agree to disclose certain personal information when you sign up for a service, but quite another to be made to disclose information all the time, every day, everywhere you go. To any rational person, that's the difference between a friend and a stalker.