O.T. Cornbread discovery!!!

hillfolk22 · Post by **hillfolk22** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:47 am

On 2003-01-22 23:40, Redwolf wrote:
Recipes, but first...

Selkie: Corn (maize or "Indian corn") contains virtually no gluten, so you should be able to eat cornbread no problem IF it's not also made with wheat flour. That's the big "if," however. You may be able to substitute soy flour or rice flour for the wheat flour and still get good results, as gluten isn't necessary for this kind of quickbread.

Redwolf

Also (if I am correct) by adding soy flour you end up having a complete protien.
I use to dabble with vegetarianism.

Could not completely give up the meat.

Anyone like scalloped corn using cornmeal?
Yum!!!!!

Laura

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:50 am

Merriam-Webster's online dictionary has this definition of corn:

3 a : the seeds of a cereal grass and especially of the important cereal crop of a particular region (as wheat in Britain, oats in Scotland and Ireland, and Indian corn in the New World and Australia)

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:59 am

On 2003-01-23 08:50, Jens_Hoppe wrote:
Merriam-Webster's online dictionary has this definition of corn:

3 a : the seeds of a cereal grass and especially of the important cereal crop of a particular region (as wheat in Britain, oats in Scotland and Ireland, and Indian corn in the New World and Australia)

Quite so. Churchill observed that the UK and US are countries separated by a common language. Over here, corn is always maize--although it is almost never referred to as such. Even on the great prairies, wheat is never "corn."

M

spittin_in_the_wind · Post by **spittin_in_the_wind** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:01 am

On 2003-01-23 08:50, Jens_Hoppe wrote:
Merriam-Webster's online dictionary has this definition of corn:

3 a : the seeds of a cereal grass and especially of the important cereal crop of a particular region (as wheat in Britain, oats in Scotland and Ireland, and Indian corn in the New World and Australia)

Good information! However, if you use any grain other than maize (Indian corn) for the American cornbread, the end product will be completely different--I guess that was my point anyways.

Robin

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:37 am

On 2003-01-23 08:44, pixyy wrote:
Right on about the European / American Corn confusion (it doesn't get much easier when talking about Maize though )

So yes, Brigitte's recipe is for 'whole-grain bread' but German style. Good stuff.

To prevent more EU/US confuzzlement: The degrees referred to are Centigrade!

"Maize" and what we Americans call "corn" are the same thing (the botanical name for the plant is "Zea mays"). The sweet corn we eat as a vegetable and the starchy "feed" corn that is used to make cornmeal, masa harina, hominy, popcorn and animal feed are different varieties of the same species.

The reason for the confusion is fairly straightforward. When the first English settlers came here, their attempts at growing the more familiar European grains failed (probably not because of climatic problems, as we were taught in grade school, but because these guys were absolutely clueless when it came to farming). Maize, which the English came to call "Indian Corn"(i.e., "Indian Grain") because it was cultivated by the Native Americans (who also taught them how to grow it), was the only grain available to them for many years, so it gradually became "corn" by default. By the time other grains, such as wheat, oats and barley, were extensively cultivated here, people were in the habit of calling maize "corn," so they turned to using "grain" or "cereal" (or the specific name) to refer to other grain crops.

BTW, you will still find some old recipes that refer to "Indian Meal Pudding" or "Indian Meal Porridge"...those, of course, refer to what we now call "cornmeal." When I was a kid, my mom (who grew up in Alabama) used to make me cornmeal mush for breakfast sometimes....mmmmm!

Cornbread is such a deeply rooted American tradition, you'll find all kinds of references to it in our literature and folk songs...but it often goes by different names. "Johnny Cake," "Journey Cake," "Hoe Cake," "Griddle Cake" and "Corn Pone" (or just "Pone") all refer to types of cornbread.

OK, now I'm hungry. I think it'll be cornbread and chili for supper tonight!

Redwolf (p.s. Did I ever mention that I'm a whiz at Trivial Pursuit?

)

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:43 am

Maize was imported into Ireland during the 184os Great Famine, and was know as "Indian corn" - that's what my father used to call it, though not many people would recognise the term in modern Ireland. Unfortunately people often didn't know how to prepare it, so it caused considerable pain during digestion and became part of the folk memory of government mismanagement of the famine. The line "you stole Trevelyan's corn" in "the Fields of Athenry" presumably refers to maize, so American listeners would for once get the correct meaning without realising it (Trevelyan was head of the British administration in Ireland at the time).

Polenta BTW is particularly associated with Friuli, the hinterland of Venice, so maybe there's some truth in the story.

Here endeth the history lesson.

And thanks to Brigittefor her reminder of my student year in Bonn consuming "flüssiges Brot" - in Germany bread comes in both liquid and solid phases. The gaseous phase is evident the next morning.

Cees · Post by **Cees** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:06 am

Sandy, my recipe for sweet cornbread:

8x8 (inch) Sweet Cornbread

1 cup cornmeal (I prefer yellow)
1 cup flour
1/4 cup sugar
4 teaspoons baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup milk
1 egg
1/4 cup vegetable oil

Preheat oven to 425 (400 if using a glass pan). Mix dry ingredients. Mix wet ingredients in separate bowl and blend both mixtures together with a few strokes till moistened (don't beat it till it's completely smooth or the baking powder won't work as well). Pour in greased (with butter or cooking spray, etc.) 8x8 inch pan and cook for 20-25 minutes until golden brown on top.

I got this recipe from a lady in Texas. She made the BEST homemade cornbread I've ever had, and when I asked for the recipe, she got a puzzled look on her face and had to sit thinking for a while...I guess she just makes it without one and doesn't even have to think about it. I've made this several times and though it's really good, have never been able to get it quite like hers...maybe it will come with time. Enjoy!

PS Sandy, I sent you a private message.

[Edited to fix a little typo]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cees on 2003-01-26 20:17 ]</font>

spittin_in_the_wind · Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:11 am

On 2003-01-23 12:06, Cees wrote:

I got this recipe from a lady in Texas. She made the BEST homemade cornbread I've ever had, and when I asked for the recipe, she got a puzzled look on her face and had to sit thinking for a while...I guess she just makes it without one and doesn't even have to think about it. I've made this several times and though it's really good, have never been able to get it quite like hers...maybe it will come with time. Enjoy!

PS Sandy, I sent you a private message.

This sounds a lot like my recipe, minus the sugar.

Robin

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:16 am

On 2003-01-23 11:43, Roger O'Keeffe wrote:
Maize was imported into Ireland during the 184os Great Famine, and was know as "Indian corn" - that's what my father used to call it, though not many people would recognise the term in modern Ireland. Unfortunately people often didn't know how to prepare it, so it caused considerable pain during digestion and became part of the folk memory of government mismanagement of the famine. The line "you stole Trevelyan's corn" in "the Fields of Athenry" presumably refers to maize, so American listeners would for once get the correct meaning without realising it (Trevelyan was head of the British administration in Ireland at the time).

Polenta BTW is particularly associated with Friuli, the hinterland of Venice, so maybe there's some truth in the story.

Here endeth the history lesson.

And thanks to Brigittefor her reminder of my student year in Bonn consuming "flüssiges Brot" - in Germany bread comes in both liquid and solid phases. The gaseous phase is evident the next morning.

The amazing thing (pun unintended) is that this sort of thing still happens. Years ago, during one of the big famines in Ethiopia, California rice growers sent tons of rice to the Ethiopian government, but didn't think to send any instructions as to how to use it. Fortunately, rather than simply distributing it, the Ethiopian government contacted the growers, thanking them for their gift but expressing confusion...what were people supposed to do with it? I guess it never occurred to the growers that Ethiopians don't normally eat rice (their staple grain is teff, whose individual grains are as tiny as a grain of sand), and that without help, they wouldn't know how to prepare it (or even necessarily recognize it as grain). I remember some people getting rather huffy about it at the time, but really...imagine what most Americans would think if we were in a similar famine situation and a kindly African nation were to send us tons of millet or sorghum? Most Americans wouldn't know sorghum if they saw it (unless it had been made into molasses!), and think of millet as something you feed (raw) to birds (in fact, a friend once haughtily informed me that "birdseed is poisonous to humans," which, of course, it isn't...good thing too, as she was eating my delicious homemade millet loaf at the time!).

Redwolf

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:40 am

I'll never forget the first time I heard the song "The Wind that Shakes the Corn." Naturally I was envisioning Iowa-style vistas of green cornstalks waving to the horizon, and just couldn't reconcile that with my image of Ireland at all...especially after I learned another version of the song called "The Wind that Shakes the Barley." It took me a while to clue into the fact that, to the rest of the world, "corn" simply means "grain."

Good advice re the cast iron pans. Another thing to note is that cast iron can be reseasoned if things really start to stick...just give it a good scrubbing, another oil coating and a good bake in the oven to renew the surface. It's also a good idea to lightly coat the cooking surface of your cast iron pans with a bit of oil after every use...it will help keep the seasoning and will also prevent rust.

Redwolf

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:40 am

Weekenders, I respect a man who knows his cast-iron cookware. Here's to you!

*drains pint of liquid bread

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:44 pm

Hi Bloomfield:
Sorry, i deleted my post (about seasoning pans and such) when I read back that msheldon had carefully covered the topic on page 2. My bad for not reading whole thread.

It was weird tho when in England, people referred to a field of non-corn as a "cornfield."

Thanks tho.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:08 pm

I also am not a great fan of sweet cornbread, however I Do save one piece for AFTER dinner' which I crumble up in a bowl, and add a lot of honey to!!

And grits, I love for breakfast, but with butter, sugar and a little cream!

msheldon · Post by **msheldon** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:15 pm

Since you folks all made me so hungry, I'll contribute the recipe that I made yesterday afternoon. This makes the traditional southern "dry" cornbread.

Preheat oven to 400F

3/4 Cup flour ***
1-1/2 Cup Corn Meal **
1 tsp Salt
3 tsp baking powder *
2 eggs
1-1/4 cup milk *
4 slices of bacon

In a 12-inch cast-iron skillet, gently (medium to medium-high heat) cook the bacon until brown and very crispy. Place bacon on a plate to cool, then crumble. Pour bacon-grease into a bowl to cool. Do not wipe the pan down.

Meanwhile, combine all the dry ingredients. Beat the eggs with the milk, then add to the dry ingredients, when the bacon grease has cooled enough that it won't cook the batter, add it and the crumbled bacon to the bowl, then mix until the batter is smooth in texture. Don't work it too much, you don't want to build up the glutens. The consistency should be relatively stiff, but not dry. Put the batter into the still-hot cast-iron skillet, and level it. Place the skillet in a 400 degree oven for approximately 25 minutes.

* Better yet is to use buttermilk and 1-2tsp of baking soda instead of the milk and baking powder, however, I don't always have buttermilk on hand.

** If you can get stone-ground corn meal, it really adds something to the texture and flavor, however, I find it best to only use a small portion of the stone ground, say 25-35% with the rest being regular corn-meal.

*** Generally, I use whole-wheat or unbleached all-purpose flour. However, buckwheat flour also works very well, and has the advantage of having no glutens. Another interesting alternative if you can get it is oat flour.

C4 · Post by C4 » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:16 pm

Okay how many people here actually made cornbread because of this Topic? I did and in the process of digging out my cornmeal(which I keep in the freezer) I found a block of frozen cookie dough leftover from Christmas so I also made coconut pecan chocolate chip cookies....This is not good for those wanting or needing to lose a few pounds..