Proper Cuts

[rrgane]

Hey Gang, I am very new to whistling, and it is going fairly well, and i am now starting to look at introducing ornamentation. My issue is Cuts. Most everywhere I look, I see that a Cut is made with the index finger of either (appropriate) hand, however a few people Cut with the next higher note. I can fairly easily accomplish the effect with the next higher note, but rarely successful with strictly using the index fingers (unless it happens to be the next higher note ). In this fragile period I so do not want to start off with bad habits, nor improper technique.

Is it more proper to use the just index fingers for Cuts?

Thanks!

[chris_coreline]

good question, i think the answer is use what you feal sounds the best but i think there are several different approaches.

I tend to use the ring finger of the left hand for D, E and F cuts and the index fnger of the left hand for G A and (at a strech) B. Im not sure it matters for normal playing, the cut is effectivally a seperate note played so fast that it never 'sounds' as anything other then a distrubence in air-flow. Im sure you could analyse it to the very thread and pick a finger for the cut depending on the context of the note and the desired spectral contant, but thats a tad extreeme!

oh, one thing, i should mention is that some tunes will be a lot more difficult with one set of whistle habits then with another, the reel 'drowsey maggy' in its first phrase has a B which kind of needs to be fingered X00XX0 in order to prevent the whistlers fingers falling off and the room catching fire so i would assume there are tunes out there which require a different approach to cutting to facilitae fingering later in the phrase.

[FJohnSharp]

I was taught to cut DEF#G with L-3 and then cut A and B with the respective finger above. Gray Larson has a different approach and a very logical reason for using it but I'm sticking with my way because I hate to try to change. (I cannot recall Gray's method just now and I seem to have misplaced the book).

[MTGuru]

Yep, FJohn described my default cuts, too. There's no master rule. This scheme just happens to give comfortable, efficient, and good-sounding cuts for most people on most whistles. I recommend it to start.

It's good to have a default that you don't have to think about. But the other half is: experiment. Play a bell D; then try cutting with every possible finger above it: B2, B1, T3, etc. Do the same with every note on the whistle. Get to know everything your instrument can do.

For example, I often cut D with B1, because it's a bit more stable. I often cut G with T2, because it gives a more distinct cut. And when doing a series of decending cuts, I switch to Grey Larsen's scheme - next highest note - because it lets the fingering flow better when you're crawling down the tube.

The stages:

Beginning: Learn one way to do X, and do it well. Concentrate on the music.

Intermediate: There's more than one way to do it. Explore the possibilities, and incorporate them in your playing.

Advanced: Do whatever works. Technique is a tool, not a rule.

[walrii]

The stages:

Beginning: Learn one way to do X, and do it well. Concentrate on the music.

Intermediate: There's more than one way to do it. Explore the possibilities, and incorporate them in your playing.

Advanced: Do whatever works. Technique is a tool, not a rule.

Sounds to me like those stages apply well beyond cuts, well beyond the whistle even.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

FJohnSharp wrote;

I was taught to cut DEF#G with L-3

And MT wrote;

Yep, FJohn described my default cuts, too.

Those comments are interesting.....I attended a whistle workshop at a festival a few years ago and was told I was wrong in cutting G with L3. 'It's not a cut', I was told, but a trill. The reasoning behind this observation was that if I played three G's in a row and lifted my L3 to separate them then it would be a trill, but if I was to play three G's and separate them by lifting L1 or L2 in between each note, then they would be cuts. 'I would never play three G's in a row separated by L3 cuts ' I said, I would separate them with a combination of any of L2, L1, or a tap with R1.
I see nothing ‘wrong’ with the L3 cut as a single ornament, I alternate between L3 and L1 cuts, now and then I throw in an L2. My flute does not have a strong sounding L1 cut on G, so I use L3.
Some times at speed I will use the weaker (on my flute anyway) L1 after an L3 on successive G's in a tune, but the L1 is a secondary cut on G for me.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Is it more proper to use the just index fingers for Cuts?

I don’t know about ‘proper’ or even correct fingers for cuts. Play bottom d and try cutting with each finger including the bottom d. Notice the difference in tone for each cut? In a short time you will find a cut that suits what you are doing in your playing and also that sounds right to your ear.
Try playing up the scale from bottom d and see what cut works for each note of the scale.
I think on average (from my experience) the stronger cuts on the bottom notes of D E F# will be either the L3 or L1 cut, the L2 is not as strong. Ymmv. The more common (rather than ‘right’) and stronger cut from G upwards is the L1. L2 is also good for the G, but for me the L3 on G is stronger.
L1 is a great cut on B and A.
I think it is all about what cuts sound best on the particular instrument you are playing.

Oh and by the way, welcome rrgane

[rrgane]

Thanks Everyone for the welcome and extremely helpful responses!

I knew I was skating on thin ice with the term 'proper'.. and I appreciate that everyone took that as I hoped they would.

Thanks Again!

[FJohnSharp]

'I would never play three G's in a row separated by L3 cuts ' I said, I would separate them with a combination of any of L2, L1, or a tap with R1..

Me too, or I'd maybe tongue one if the tune called for it.

[jemtheflute]

the reel 'drowsey maggy' in its first phrase has a B which kind of needs to be fingered X00XX0 in order to prevent the whistlers fingers falling off and the room catching fire

Sorry to interrupt the sound advice being given..... but I don't really get this point! Sure, you can fudge the pedal point on E first bar (~E2 BE dE BE) of Drowsy Maggie with the "lazy" fingering mentioned, but why? There is no need to do so nor anything difficult about using the normal open fingerings throughout that sequence - one should be able to do it cleanly and at speed! And in any case there aren't any places in that sequence where one would normally put any cuts (and the roll on the opening E crotchet is optional) - although if one wanted to be very florid one could cut either or both the two Bs with L1, and indeed the next B in bar 2.... but the only place in either bar I would regularly use a cut (with L2) would be on the A in bar 2 (~E2 BE AF# DF#), which is in no way affected by how one fingers the Bs! Bar 3 is identical to bar 1 and in bar 4 (BA Bc# dA F#D) I would normally cut the B (with L1), which again presents no difficulty in context that I can discern. Incidentally, in all the instances of "cuts" mentioned in this paragraph, I would play the main note briefly first, cut it and return, thus B-cut-B or A-cut-A, not an appogiatura type drop from the "cut" note played first into the main note. And those E rolls I cut the roll with R1, or sometimes "double cut" or quasi-cran it with L3, then R1, then tap R3.


You have a wider point with some validity, Chris, that one uses special fingerings (including "ornamental" ones) in particular contexts where they may offer certain advantages... but I don't think your chosen example offers such a case.

[chris_coreline]

You have a wider point with some validity, Chris, that one uses special fingerings (including "ornamental" ones) in particular contexts where they may offer certain advantages... but I don't think your chosen example offers such a case.

thanks, i think i was trying to make 2 points
1) i hate that reel becuase i cant play it well
2) the 'correct' way to do somthing is the way that sounds best and is most comfortable for the musician (in that order i think).
I think this applies to all music; the tighter scoring of the classical traditions is jsut tiping the balence toward 'correct sound' at the expence of 'comfortable (easy) playing'