Does "Irish Washerwoman" have a bad rap?

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:15 am

Here are some other, less chemical, alternative lyrics...

Oh, Mc Carthy is dead and Mc Guiness don't know it,
McGuiness is dead and McCarthy don't know it.
They're both of them dead and they're lying together,
And neither one knows that the other is dead.

Mercifully, there is only that one chorus....

jbarter · Post by **jbarter** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:18 am

My local session still play it a fair bit as part of the rapper set.

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:32 am

I have never heard the Irish Washerwoman played in a session here. Ever. Anywhere. I actually can't remember how it goes offhand. But I do know that even the slightest mention of the name to anyone (that I know) who plays ITM here will get you a wince (sometimes, to be fair, there is an attempt to disguise this, if badly), followed by a hasty excuse about having to be somewhere - anywhere - else five minutes ago, and an amazingly quick exit, considering that they were playing uillean pipes.
Not sure why. Maybe this is one of those Area 51 phenomena... something went horribly wrong, but no-one's prepared to admit exactly what...

Deirdre

It could also just be that it's overplayed, but other overplayed tunes tend not to get the same vehemence of response...

I think that also this may be one of the (very few) ITM tunes that were collared by some misguided orchestral arranger at some time in the past, as being a perfect 'Irish Medley' tune for classically-immersed musicians under the misapprehension that 1)ITM is easy to play and 2) all you need to know is what page it's on in the score... that'd explain some of the reaction, I think.

Feel free to choose whichever explanation tickles your fancy the most!

[ This Message was edited by: fluter_d on 2003-01-20 09:35 ]

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:35 am

Patsy Touhey recorded it. Tommy Reck used to have a great version of it, Paddy Fahey has re-arranged it as did [less succesfully] Ed Reavey. I heard Joe McLaughlin and his brother Dermot play it on occasion and the version recorded by Gerdy Commane is simply wonderful.
It's out there.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2003-01-20 09:37 ]

energy · Post by **energy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:07 pm

Aren't there words that are sung to the melody? I was under the impression the words are racist or something, deroguatory in some way.

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:59 pm

The tune accompanies a Scottish National Dance of the same name. It is a compulsory dance in competition, along with the sailor's hornpipe.

The dancer's costume is a Hollywood view of what an Irish washerwoman would be like. During the dance the dancers have to shake their fists as if angry at someone. My ex-wife who was a highland dancer and Irish, refused to dance it thinking that it was demeaning towards the Irish.

We have a guy here in Windsor who plays the hell out of that tune almost every chance he gets and at speeds that almost no one can play with him, and it does get very, very, thin at times.

So it isn't one of my favourites!

MarkB

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:28 pm

I don't know what yer all talking about.... Irish Washerwoman is the hottest tune going in the Boston session scene these days.

Me: "Hey Peter, we haven't played Irish Washerwoman since the beginning of the session, and there were only 3 whistles in the session then. Don't you think we ought to play it again now that 5 more whistle players, 2 bodhran players and a guitarist have joined in?"

Peter: "Good stuff Chris. I don't think we really got into the groove of it when we played it earlier, and it'll sound so much better with the additional whistle players, bodhran players and the guitarist. Let's play it again, 6 times through, followed by the Kesh Jig and then Saddle the Pony. We'll take turns on the parts too, alternating between harmony and melody too, so it won't be as boring as most of our sets. How's that sound?"

Me: "That sounds fantastic Peter, okay, should you start or should I start, and what key whistles should we play it with?"

Peter: "You can start Chris. Have you got your McHaffie low E#? I've always loved that whistle. That way you can play in E# and I'll play in D and we'll have some really cool harmonies. Sound good?"

Me: "Good stuff... count of 4!"

Peter: "Wait, Chris does that mean just before 4, right on 4, of after 4?"

Me: "Dammit Peter, you're right, this is just too complicated. How about some polkas? Let's do that one we play as a round!"

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2003-01-20 18:28 ]

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:54 pm

Please, Oh Please, ChrisLaughlin where is this pub in Boston that such a lovely tune is played on your Maytag. Is it next to a laundromat? You might need some Bounce for your load -- ah tune.

It sounds like it might be empty -- devoid of life --- paying customers, or people who are deaf, or muscially challenged!

Or some place to avoid when visiting!

Where did you say the pub was?

MarkB

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:03 pm

For what it's worth, here are the words that show up in an Ask.com search for "The Irish Washerwoman lyrics."

IRISH WASHERWOMAN/CORPORAL CASEY

When I was at home I was merry and frisky,
My dad kept a pig and my mother sold whisky,
My uncle was rich, but never would by aisey
Till I was enlisted by Corporal Casey.
Och! rub a dub, row de dow, Corporal Casey,
My dear little Shelah, I thought would run crazy,
When I trudged away with tough Corporal Casey.

I marched from Kilkenny, and, as I was thinking
On Shelah, my heart in my bosom was sinking,
But soon I was forced to look fresh as a daisy,
For fear of a drubbing from Corporal Casey.
Och! rub a dub, row de dow, Corporal Casey!
The devil go with him, I ne'er could be lazy,
He struck my shirts so, ould Corporal Casey.

We went into battle, I took the blows fairly
That fell on my pate, but they bothered me rarely,
And who should the first be that dropped, why, and please ye,
It was my good friend, honest Corporal Casey.
Och! rub a dub, row de dow, Corporal Casey!
Thinks I you are quiet, and I shall be aisey,
So eight years I fought without Corporal Casey.

energy · Post by **energy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:36 pm

Chris, that was hilarious! Man, that had me laughing as hard as some of the stuff in "rrruuummbbbllllle" thread....

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:42 am

I suspect that it has been cast out into exterior darkness because it's associated with "stage Irishness". Time for some movie buff to count how many times it's been used as background music for the bar-room brawl that is a sine qua non of any Hollywood depiction of Ireland. It was possibly Tuohey's recording that made it known in the US outside Irish circles.

A similarly damned tune is "The Rakes of Mallow" because it seems to be the only tune that dancing teachers use for their very first lesson (and for the next few hundred). About 99.99% of musicians just hate it.

Among singers, "The Fields of athenry" is the equivalent pariah, for more obscure reasons.

jbarter · Post by **jbarter** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:32 am

On 2003-01-22 07:42, Roger O'Keeffe wrote:
A similarly damned tune is "The Rakes of Mallow"

Remember that Rapper set I mentioned a few posts ago? Rakes of Mallow is in that one as well.
It may not be fashionable in musical circles but it can bring in an awful lot of free pints.

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:50 am

All jokes aside, when you play for hire, sometimes you have to play what the folks who are paying you want to hear.

In the fife and drum world, we get asked to play Yankee Doodle at least 3 times at every job. Oh yeah, and Battle Hymn of the Republic, Dixie, When Johnny Comes Marching Home, Old Dan Tucker, Grandfather's Clock and Turkey in the Straw. We also get asked to play the Rakes of Mallow, the Girl I left Behind Me, Gary Owen, and yes, the Irish Washerwoman. So we play them. We play them as well as we can, and occasionally one of us even comes up with a new arrangement, and we try that.

Of course, the fife and drum canon is somewhat smaller than the trad. There are only about 1500 or 2000 tunes in common use. Fife and drum sessions (which are called jollifications, by the way) last longer than trad sessions, people wander in and out, and it is not uncommon to repeat a tune a couple of hours later. There is also no disrespect for easy tunes - beginners are encouraged to hang around, and asked what tunes they know so that they can participate. My friend Sue is the New York state champion fifer, and will often ask that we play something fat (easy) so that the kids can join in.

Also, there are reasons why these tunes became cliches. One of the reasons is that they strike a chord in people. So play 'em! Unless they're asking for that tune from Titanic. Or Riverdance.

Just my $.02 (U.S. - that's $7.50 Canadian).

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:54 am

On 2003-01-22 07:42, Roger O'Keeffe wrote:
I suspect that it has been cast out into exterior darkness because it's associated with "stage Irishness". Time for some movie buff to count how many times it's been used as background music for the bar-room brawl that is a sine qua non of any Hollywood depiction of Ireland. It was possibly Tuohey's recording that made it known in the US outside Irish circles.

A similarly damned tune is "The Rakes of Mallow" because it seems to be the only tune that dancing teachers use for their very first lesson (and for the next few hundred). About 99.99% of musicians just hate it.

Among singers, "The Fields of athenry" is the equivalent pariah, for more obscure reasons.

Don't forget "Whisky in the Jar" (which I can tolerate every once in a while) and "The Flowers of the Forest" (which I can't)!

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:16 am

Well, I'm sorry ...

I just pulled up a midi of "Washerwoman" and listened to it again. Even in that canned version, I think it's a terrific tune. Too bad there's so much baggage associated with it. That B part swirls wonderfully. Lots of character to it. Makes me want to grab someone and dance.

No offense intended -- sometimes it may be a liability to be too experienced or too sophisticated. Because of their innocence and the newness of everything, my kids can get an amazing amount of pleasure out of things that seem utterly unremarkable to me.

Best wishes,
Jerry