Brass whistles.....more excessive moisture problems?

Bagfed · Post by **Bagfed** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:28 pm

I bought one of those asakar high D's on e-bay...it sound ok and quiet, but in the space of one tune I get condensation and the second octive disapears. Is that common with brass or just cheap, poorly crafted brass?

p.s. no I do not have a drooling problem.

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:01 pm

Some are worse then others.

My Hoover does the same thing. If you run soapy water through it (as you should for it's periodic cleaning) just don't rinse the inside. The soap will help reduce the clogging to some degree. I can get through several songs before I have to unclog.

I also heard that an automotive product called Rain X works great for this, but I have not tried it and I want to look into its safety before I do.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:05 pm

Metal windways are worse than plastic or wood. The soap treatment helps. I use dishwasher rinse-aid. More importantly, though, warm the whistle up before blowing through it. I usually keep a whistle under my arm for a few minutes; you can put it under a leg while sitting, use a blow dryer, etc.

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 7:14 am

Kodak Photo-Flo is a pure soap that you mix with water, just a few drops to the ounce (read the bottle for instructions), and use that as a dip for your whistle head. It creates a hygroscopic (water-attracting)layer that prevents beading in the windway, which is the most common cause of clogs. Use it as the last bit of your cleaning routine. Works exceptionally well.
serpent

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:17 am

Photoflo!! What a good idea. As a lapsed photog hobbyist I had forgotten. One thing about Photoflo is that Kodak's recommended dilution rate is way low for film. You can use a higher dilution (more water) with the same results.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:35 am

Warmth really does seem to be the key with metal whistles. My Elfsong (metal mouthpiece, wooden fipple) will clog for about the first 10 minutes or so of playing, and then it just stops clogging altogether. Warming it up in my hands can reduce this time, but what really seems to make the difference is when the mouthpiece reaches mouth temperature (i.e., when I first start playing, even if I've warmed the whistle up in my hands, the mouthpieces feels a little cool to my upper lip. When that disappears, the clogging also just goes away, and stays away for the rest of the session unless I put the whistle down for a while and let it cool).

I remember asking some time ago why someone would blow through their whistle to warm it...now I know!

Redwolf

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:54 am

Photoflo is fine. Now photographers also use just plain dishwashing detergent when short of Flo

Same with whistles, I'd guess...

However it does seem to me that copper or brass whistles do clog easier than aluminum. Maybe because of the metal thermic conduction, maybe too because copper whistles are usually thin-walled (sheet thin) than aluminium : less mass makes a faster warm-up, faster cool-down, and more unevenness of the temperature along the whistle.

adriancarrington · Post by **adriancarrington** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:35 am

I don't think the actual quality of the brass is an issue, Bagfed. I think the problem is brass itself (coupled with the individual design of instruments of course).
My Chieftain Gold (brass of course..!!) is impossible to warm: in fact I cannot keep it warm at all.
I experimented with standing it on a heater, which made it REALLY warm, and it sang like an angel for a short while before cooling and starting to clog again. That whistle is made of very thick brass tubing, and one would assume that the thickness doesn't help, however my paper thin brass Hoover is a little troublesome also (not *as* bad BTW, and a beautiful sounding whistle).
I know aluminium has very different thermal properties to brass, but I don't possess an aluminium whistle for comparison. I assume that it is easier to warm, although without the slightest evidence: it's just my assumption. I would be interested in people's comments on this issue...anyone?
I must say that I've become a little wary of whistles with metal mouthpieces from my own experience. I know the soap trick helps, but it irritates me to be wondering whether or not the dreaded clogging is about to strike.
Maybe its me, maybe it's the climate, but the clogging I have experienced has made it impossible to play a tune, in spite of blowing, sucking, shaking, attempted warming, or whatever.
I have no problems with my O'Briain, and other plastic headed whistles, which clear easily and are much less prone in the first place. My next whistle will be a Reyburn which I currently have on order...Ronaldo uses a Delrin mouthpiece, and this had some influence on my decision.
I hope you manage to overcome your clogging problems!

Best Wishes, Adrian

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:46 am

I wonder how different metals would compare in this respect? It would make some sense that conductivity could influence clogging. I mentioned in my review that I'd expected my Elfsong to be a bad clogger, and was pleasantly surprised that it isn't (once warmed)...copper's an excellent conductor of heat (once I've played 10 minutes or so, the entire whistle feels beautifully warm...almost alive! Not something I've noticed as obviously with my brass-bodied whistles). Does brass conduct heat as effectively as copper? Has anyone who has both a copper and a brass whistle done any "clogging comparisons"?

Redwolf

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:03 pm

On 2003-01-17 12:46, Redwolf wrote:
Does brass conduct heat as effectively as copper? Redwolf

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall from my school days that the three best metals for conducting heat are, in this order- silver, copper, aluminum. I don't know where brass falls in relation to any of these.

All the Best, Tom

JMcCYoung · Post by **JMcCYoung** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:36 pm

On 2003-01-17 12:46, Redwolf wrote:
I wonder how different metals would compare in this respect? ... Does brass conduct heat as effectively as copper?

According to my father's old <i> Handbook of Chemistry and Physics </i> (1944 edition), it varies according to composition and temperature. Brass ranges from about 0.20 to 0.28 calories/cm. sec. degree C, copper from 0.92 to 1.11 (the latter figure at -183 degrees C, so probably not as useful a figure as the first, for both 0 and 100 C), and silver from 0.96 to 1.10. Eiderdown's thermal conductivity is 0.000011, which suggests it's probably not a good cookware material for that reason if no other.

John

Ro3b · Post by **Ro3b** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 1:01 pm

I hope you guys are being careful to check the warning labels on the chemicals you're dipping your whistles in. I know you're not likely to ingest significant amounts of Rain-X or Photoflo this way, but still. All you have to do to avoid clogging is take a breath through your whistle every now and then and suck the gunk out.

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 1:08 pm

I never gave clogging much thought before as I had only colorful plastic fipples sprouting from my tobbacco can garden. However I have recently aquired a couple of brass fippled whistles that are all but driving me crazy. One is not to bad in that it will clog once or twice at the beggining of play and then settle down and be good. I think because of the large windway and large window there is more surface area for evaporation. But my Hoover is a different story. Now I wouldn`t want to change a thing on this whistle. It is without a doubt the sweatest, quitest, most delightful whistle I have but what a clogger. It of course has a very narrow windway and tiny window. I love the sound of brass, I love the feel and look of brass so I will not surrender to its little quirks. There must be a way to deal with this problem. And it will probably come through this thread.

Tom

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 1:14 pm

Thanks for all the advise... I'm having a terrible time with clogging on my Burke WBB Brass D, have no problems with the session pro Brass or my Copelands. I'll be thrilled if I can fix this problem as even the smallest amount of condensation, even invisible, seems to render this instrument unplayable.

Cheers,

Michael

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 4:11 pm

Funny - I never have trouble with my brass whistles, probably because of the Bill Ochs habit I acquired early on of covering the opening atop the airway with a finger, blowing tightly (and dryly) through the blow hole, and shaking out every so often. Cover, finger, blow, shake...sounds like cooking directions...or worse...or better...

Philo