Piper's Grip Step-By-Step

[MTGuru]

Personally, I think the perceived difficulty of piper's grip is as much psychological as physical. If you approach it thinking that it's something different and difficult, it will be. If you just ... do it, it soon becomes no more easy or difficult than anything else.

More properly, the following describes "modified" or "semi" piper's grip with the bottom hand only. Most people can continue to use the normal whistle grip with the top hand.

Start by practicing on a high D whistle. Use the middle joints of all 3 bottom fingers, keeping your fingers straight across and perpendicular to the tube. Get used to sealing the holes despite the reduced touch sensitivity of the middle joints. You may find you have to press a bit harder than before to achieve a good seal.

If you have a C or Bb whistle, again practice the use of the middle joints on these larger instruments, too.

Now take up your low D. Using the first 2 bottom fingers only (B1 and B2), middle joints, again practice some favorite tunes, omitting the D note as necessary.

Note that, because of the shorter length of the bottom B3 finger, it's probably going to be an awkward stretch to cover the bottom hole with the middle joint of B3 (though some people can do this fairly easily). The simple solution is to use the pad. So go ahead and cover the bottom hole with the pad of B3.

You'll notice right away that your hand feels cramped and stretched. No problem! Keeping the B3 finger pad firmly planted as a pivot, just gently and slightly rotate your entire hand counter-clockwise relative to your chest. Voilà! Now your B1 and B2 fingers are angling down slightly, but the hand is relaxed, and all the holes are covered. You have achieved piper's griphood!

Experiment by adjusting the rotation of the bottom hand for a good seal and a relaxed hand. If your fingers are a bit bony and your knuckles feel like they're in the way, adjust your hand position so the holes are under the fleshy joints as much as possible, and press down a bit harder if necessary.

One other issue: If you are used to using your short pinkie finger (little finger) as your bottom whistle supoort, it will likely not reach the tube when using piper's grip. Instead, get used to using the B3 finger on the B3 hole as your support, and lifting it as necessary to avoid flattening the intonation when you play F# or E.

Yes, you can do it.

[Denny]

s'pose ya think the theater is dead too!

[DrPhill]

That post would have helped me immensely when I started the low whistle.... ah well, that's life.

I use the pipers grip, or something resembling it (not sure how tightly defined it is) on the low whistle, and 'finger pad grip' on the high D whistle. Should I retrain myself to use a pipers grip on the high D whistle?
If so, why, and what would I gain? I can imagine doing so for sufficient gain, but at my age I learn new tricks quite slowly.

(mental note, must watch and see how many high whistlers use a pipers grip).

TIA

[WyoBadger]

Thanks! Timely advice. I'll start trying it out tomorrow.

TW

[Makar]

Most people can continue to use the normal whistle grip with the top hand.

I must admit I'd be interested to see a poll on that one. I note Jem grips this way too with the top hand. I have medium sized mens hands with fairly slim fingers and I couldn't begin to try and stretch my fingers out as Jem shows in his set of photos. Maybe just practice would help me adopt the way described but I find it much easier using pipers with both hands as described in the low whistle book by Hannigan and Ledsam. Indeed, on page 10 they show two diagrams - the one labelled 'not like this' is the way you are describing most people would go with the top hand. Not suggesting anybody is wrong - whatever works for the individual is the right way for them. But for people trying to get to grips with it - it may be good to know the most widely adopted way of this membership, in the knowledge that no one size fits all. Complete pipers, bottom only pipers or fingertips (pads of) all the way? I'm sure this has probably been done in the past...

thanks
Stephen

[MTGuru]

Not suggesting anybody is wrong - whatever works for the individual is the right way for them.

Yes, I think so. The top hand spacing is about the same as on D flute, so I think a top hand position somewhere between flute grip and whistle grip is pretty common. Whereas the bottom hand spacing - B2 to B3 especially - poses more of a challenge.

Again, I think it's important to overcome the psychology of approaching the various grips as challenging or intimidating. There are a few combinations of grip that are proven effective. So you experiment and pick one that works for you, moving your hands and thumbs around a bit until things fall into place.

Should I retrain myself to use a pipers grip on the high D whistle?

No. it's actually awkward on a small whistle - not enough room. And you lose the sensitivity of the finger tips.

In a way, it's too bad that "piper's grip" has a separate, scary name. It's not really a separate technique. It's just a way of rotating the hands a bit when you need a longer reach to cover the holes, nothing more.

[DrPhill]

Should I retrain myself to use a pipers grip on the high D whistle?

No. it's actually awkward on a small whistle - not enough room. And you lose the sensitivity of the finger tips.

In a way, it's too bad that "piper's grip" has a separate, scary name. It's not really a separate technique. It's just a way of rotating the hands a bit when you need a longer reach to cover the holes, nothing more.

Thanks MT (I can call you that now?) that means I don't have to relearn my high D grip. I originally played finger-tips on the low whistle and had to learn the pipers grip. I am glad I did as, for me, it is far easier. Then I discovered that I had left and right reversed, so had to learn that again. I wish I had discovered C&F much earlier in my whistling journey - I would have been a couple of years ahead of myself now.

[That wasn't meant to sound like just the sort cheesy quote you need when advertising C&F ].

[talasiga]

......Use the middle joints of all 3 bottom fingers, keeping your fingers straight across and perpendicular to the tube. Get used to sealing the holes despite the reduced touch sensitivity of the middle joints. You may find you have to press a bit harder than before to achieve a good seal.
.........

There are several bansuri-ic grips that could come under the "pipers' grip" header.
One is that the lowest finger of each hand meets thhe tone hole att the top phalange
(and the others as you have described).
This enables those low finger points to act as pivots for the other digits,
parrticularly for sliding effects - these effects being a predominant feature
in indic music as they are in certain niches of ITM melodies.

I wouldn't be surprised if a survey of 20 virtuosi whistlers from Ireland didn't reveal some the do iitt this way.

[pancelticpiper]

Most people can continue to use the normal whistle grip with the top hand.

I must admit I'd be interested to see a poll on that one. I note Jem grips this way too with the top hand.

Having played Highland pipes for 35 years (scary huh?) the piper's grip, using the pads on the middle joints, of the low hand is what comes naturally to me anyhow. But like most GHB players I use the endjoint pads on my upper hand.

Which is fine as long as I played Low Whistles infrequently. But around two years ago I sold all my flutes and the low whistle became my primary session instrument. I settled on the Burke which has a fatter tube and more widely-spaced upper hand holes than other Low D's and the combination of all three factors (longer playing stints, fat tube, widely spaced holes) has made my upper hand tire and get crampy. I know the two-part solution: 1) learn the upper-hand piper's grip and 2) use a neck strap to support the whistle but getting my upper hand used to the new grip has been a struggle.

[wurzel]

I recently went into the Hobgoblin shop in London and a had a really good chat with the sales assistant there - what a great bloke, let me try all his whistles (no, I don't have an interest in the shop!). Anyway, we were discussing grips and he suggested that I should be supporting the whistle with the little finger of the bottom hand to make it easier to hold the whistle when playing c#. Try as I may, my little finger just doesn't seem long enough! I have seen some whistles (Susato mainly) with a ring attached to the body so that you can balance it on your thumb. Anyone know what I'm talking about and where I can get one?

Wurzel

[Innocent Bystander]

http://www.whistlesmith.com/archives/000190.php

This any help?

[wurzel]

Brilliant, just what I was looking for. Thank you very much!
Wurzel

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Holding any whistle that causes a reach issue for anyone does not have to be a struggle. Everyone knows that their hands are different from everyone else’s hands.

Finger lengths differ from person to person, as does finger thickness and hand size.

I have found that over time I have gravitated towards holding my top hand in the same way as I hold my flute. I used to try to play with my fingers more closer to a right angle, similar to Jem’s grip that he demonstrates here on a previous thread:



I found that my hand would start cramping up if I played for extended periods so I switched to ‘flute grip’ for my left hand and I found that by using the grip I show here that I can play for hours on end without a problem. I use ‘pipers grip’ on the bottom hand.
I have found that the position I am using for the low D switches effortlessly to the flute where I use the same grip.

This combination of grips is extremely comfortable, especially so on the top hand.

I can hold the whistle lightly and my fingers can move freely. The bottom hand took a bit of time (a week or so of fairly constant practice) to come to grips with because I was used to playing the flute closer to the tips of the fingers, but it was well worth the effort as I now can switch from low D to flute in an instant using the same grip.

The pic’ below is me holding a Susato low D using my ‘combination grip’ ( ha! trademark coming up!) Wurzel, you can see the thumb rest (supplied with the low D when I bought it) below my right hand where I slid it down out of the way. I found it irritating from the start and did/do not use it. It is only there so that I don’t lose it, it may come in handy for someone when I sell the whistle.



[Edited: Fixed graphics and formatting. - MTGuru]

[MusicalADD]

For me, the piper's grip was never the challenge in playing a low D... for, the main challenge is the air requirements.

Secondary challenge is that, on some low Ds, it's tough for me to get a good seal on the lowest holes. I have a Burke Composite EZ that I bought used off another C&F'er, and I love the its tone and light weight. But there's just something about the shape of the holes, I think, that makes it tough for me to get a good seal on those low holes. A shame. I don't have that problem on my Reviol. But the Reviol isn't as light... it's always something, isn't it?

[Makar]

Just pasted this in from the main website - this is how I hold the low D. The words are Dales I presume, not mine...



H o w t o F i n g e r t h e L o w W h i s t l e

This is the necessary method of playing the low whistle, in my opinion and of that of everyone who has some idea what he or she is talking about. It's called piper fingering. It's a little difficult to learn at first for those accustomed to the standard "fingertip" style of playing high whistles. Trying to play the low whistle with conventional fingering will inevitably lead to fatigue.

Note that the holes are covered with the 2nd joint pad, except that the ring fingers of both hands cover their respective holes with the first joint.

Thanks to Bill D'Ambrogio for this photo!