a theory: singing while playing instruments

[mutepointe]

I have a theory about people who can/can't sing while they are playing instruments. I'm looking for feedback and comments.

I think that people who learned musical instruments, like piano, while they were children from a pre-set instructional course with an instructor may not have sang the songs while they played because they were much more concerned about technique and all the other things. The same things goes with people who are learning new instruments. They are more concerning with learning the instruments that they don't give much thought to singing the song that they're playing. And if they're learning classical music, there isn't anything to sing. Then when they get to a point in their lives when they need to sing and play at the same time, they either can't do it or they need to learn this skill too.

People who learn instruments and sing along while they learn just naturally develop this skill.

I've taught some friends to play some instruments and I've tried to encourage them to sing from the start but you know how people are about their singing. I've even suggested humming or singing the song in their head or just singing while they practice alone. I think if you're planning to be a famous rock or country star and play and sing at the same time that you should start out doing both at the same time.

[HDSarah]

My theory is that people who play whistle (or flute, or Scottish pipes, or saxophone, etc.) very rarely sing as they play.

Seriously, though, you may have a point there. I play hammered dulcimer and it's difficult for me to sing and play at the same time -- I have to practice to do it; I can't do it spontaneously. I asked Maddie McNeal (who sings and plays at the same time) for advice and she said NOT to try learning the playing and singing separately and then put them together, but instead to start with VERY simple accompaniment (like playing a simple chord just on the chord changes) at first and then expanding to more complex instrumental accompaniment. It's pretty much what you're saying -- do both together -- but on a song-by-song basis, so you can start working on that NOW even if you've already learned to play without singing along.

(And have I worked on this? Nooooooo . . . But I intend to, really. )

[CHasR]

And if they're learning classical music, there isn't anything to sing. Then when they get to a point in their lives when they need to sing and play at the same time, they either can't do it or they need to learn this skill too.

well I dont know what your experience has been with classical training, but let me tell you:
there are a host of tourtures worse than sing & play's that professors can put serious music students through.
For 4 years, not only did we have to sight-sing both fixed and moveable DO in all major & minor keys, but also:

sight sing and conduct,
ss and clap an ostinato,
ss and play piano,
conduct (rh) , sing, play piano(lh) and stamp ostinato,
do independent meters in left and right hands while singing,
where does it end?
I remember having one 4/4 exercise in 5 flats, sing it in solfege, conduct 4, and beat a rhythm in 15/16 simultaneously. (that would be a rhythm under 5 triplets to each 4/4 bar).
SO,
There's plenty to sing while learning classical music.
Even if youre a brass major, in the very least, they'll still conscript you for chorus.

[mutepointe]

Isn't that all against the Geneva Convention?

My only knowledge of piano lessons is showing up once a week at my sister-in-law's house and going through her old piano books. We didn't do anything fancy. When I surprised her with Moonlight Sonata, she said that was the end of my lessons, that I could figure out the rest myself. I did figure out myself to play the piano and sing at the same time because I was interested in folk music.

[brewerpaul]

My theory is that people who play whistle (or flute, or Scottish pipes, or saxophone, etc.) very rarely sing as they play.

)

Check out Jethro Tull. Flutist Ian Anderson sometimes hums into his flute, with very interesting results.

[djm]

I learned by hearing what I play and what I sing. They go together as a piece. This requires sufficient understanding of your instrument that you can play what you want. to that end, I don't know that you can learn both at the same time from scratch.

I am often shocked when I run into people who have no idea what they are playing. They don't listen to the sounds they generate. They are totally focused on the physical exercise of operating their instrument. If it isn't written, they can't play it. If a dynamic isn't written, they just hammer right through to the end without change. When they hear recordings of themselves they are sometimes disappointed, sometimes not.

I guess individual expectations differ wildly.

djm

[cowtime]

My theory is that people who play whistle (or flute, or Scottish pipes, or saxophone, etc.) very rarely sing as they play.

)

Check out Jethro Tull. Flutist Ian Anderson sometimes hums into his flute, with very interesting results.

My oboe teacher has had me hum while sounding a note, to make sure the throat is opened up, I think. I bet you've done this CHasR.

I was a kid when I began piano, regular lessons, regular stuff, no singing required. But, when I could play music beyond the lessons I started singing along on occasion. I still do, much to the dismay of anyone in hearing distance. In fact, sometimes it's a tune of the above mentioned Mr. Anderson

Take you to the cinema
and leave you in a Wimpy Bar --
you tell me that we've gone to far --

[Innocent Bystander]

Singing while playing guitar is okay. Maybe not so okay for the people who have to listen.
But I find it very difficult to sing while playing Mountain Dulcimer. Maybe that just a reflection of the lack of expertise.

[CHasR]

Isn't that all against the Geneva Convention?

It oughta be!

There's a jazz trombonist, Bill Watrous, (look him up should be findable) who ,
(and Im not lyin because I saw him do this live and in person onstage)
can play 3 independent moving lines on one trombone:
he plays a multiphonic note, and then sings/hums through the instrument.
absolutely incredible.

[izzarina]

I do better with a tune if I can hum it well first. But I don't really sing while playing my fiddle.

[fyffer]

In my experience, accompanying myself on guitar while singing, it was never something I really had to think about. But what I think it boils down to is that you have to be able to do one or the other (sing OR play) without any conscious effort at all. If you have to try to figure out where your fingers are going next, AND think about the lyrics or the next note you're singing, you're screwed.
And the best-case scenario is that you don't have to think about EITHER, and then you can concentrate on another aspect of your gig - whether it's stage presence, interacting with an audience, or my favorite from the bar-playing days, being able to watch the ballgame and not miss a note.

Kind of like marching and playing an instrument. For most people, because marching is really just "walking to the beat" (and how you can play something and NOT walk to the beat is totally beyond my ken), it's easy, cuz you don't have to think about it, and you can concentrate on your playing.

Totally IMHO, and YMMV.

[fearfaoin]

It's just another skill. You either learn it earlier or later...
There's enough to think about learning the instrument,
that it can be hard for beginners to split their attention,
but I can see where that would be helpful to make their
playing more of a "background process".

I played the clarinet and sax for a decade before I took
up an instrument that I could sing along with. I was pretty
decent on the guitar by the time I started singing at the
same time (in a group sing-a-long), so it was a relatively
easy adjustment.

I like the idea of singing along in your head, though.
That seems like it might speed up the process.

[fearfaoin]

Kind of like marching and playing an instrument. For most people, because marching is really just "walking to the beat" (and how you can play something and NOT walk to the beat is totally beyond my ken), it's easy, cuz you don't have to think about it, and you can concentrate on your playing.

That's a pretty good analogy. The extra complication
of lyrics can be associated with staying in formation.
You might learn the music and formations separately,
but once you do, it's pretty easy to put the two
together, since they're related rhythmically.

[izzarina]

I like the idea of singing along in your head, though.
That seems like it might speed up the process.

It's something that is encouraged in the Suzuki method, and for me it's very helpful. If I have a song in my head, I can play it on my fiddle.

[djm]

I'd rather have a song in my heart.

djm