Lavalier microphones (was: Frequency spectrum of flutes)

[Gabriel]

I'm looking into getting a lavalier microphone for playing on stage. Most lavalier type microphones have a frequency range of about 150-15000 Hz. I'd like to know if that's enough for miking a flute, since most condenser microphones have ranges of at least 20-20000 Hz and a good sound quality is just as important for me as beeing able to move freely...

Thanks!

[Trip-]

that range should be enough imo.

[MTGuru]

The most common and popular microphone for live performance is probably the Shure SM58, a dynamic mic with a specified response of 50-15000 Hz. The basic flute range is D4 (294 Hz) to D6 (1175 Hz), well within the mic range. For live sound, the upper end will be masked by ambient noise, and normally you might roll off the high frequencies anyway to prevent the flute from sounding too bright, and to control feedback. High frequency response is more important for plucked strings and percussion, to capture the transient response. For flute, not so much. Also, typical adult hearing doesn't extend above 12-15 kHz anyway.

So the simple answer is: yes. 150 - 15000 is more than adequate for miking flute.

[Terry McGee]

There is not that much flute content above 5000Hz, and that which there is is emitted directly from the embouchure, generated by the switching action of the jet. The "cut-off" frequency of the air resonance in a conical flute is in the order of 1.5KHz, so the harmonics start rolling off from there. So yes, any reasonable mic will be fine at the top end.

There is another issue to consider - the directional pattern of the mic.

Most lavalier mics are omnidirectional. You can pick them because they only have sound entry grille at the front. The big advantage is that they are relatively immune from handling noise, and less prone to popping.

You can get cardioid (unidirectional) mics. They tend to have a basket head, or a set of slots or holes around the outside, as sound has to be able to get also to the back of the mic capsule. Cancellation is used to generate the directional effect. The directional characteristics are helpful in reducing feedback.

Cardioids are "velocity" rather than "pressure" mics, and more prone to handling noise and popping. They also suffer "proximity effect", a rise in the low end as the mic gets closer to the source of sound. Proximity effect is a pest for singers and guitars, making them sound woolly, and so stage mics have inbuilt filtering to combat it. But it can have some advantage for the flute, where the low notes can have less carrying power. Can give the flute more "body". But very desirable to have a foam pop filter, as well as the in-built mesh one.

Ideally it would be good to test the available mics on the flute. Perhaps your local music shop will allow you to record through each of them, and you can take the recording away to contemplate? Remember to voice-ID the mics before playing.

But if that's not an option, you could just get a not-too-expensive omni and rely on desk EQ to tweak the sound to your taste. But now you have to consider the question of phantom power - many lavalier style mics resent having 48V unexpectedly applied to their nether regions, and some desks don't have individual controls on the availability of phantom. One in, all in - oops, sorry!

So talk to your sound person first. You'll need to consider connectors too - the only reliable connector for mics is the XLR, and it's probably bigger than the microphone!

Terry

[Gabriel]

Many thanks for your replies!

I'm looking at the Audio-Technica AT803b and AT831b lavalier microphones. Former is omnidirectional, latter cardioid, both in the same price range (170-180 euro). Both come with an integrated power pack with a belt clamp, and can be powered either by battery or by phantom power from the mixing console. They both take a standard female XLR plug just as about every standard microphone available.

I'm not sure which directional pattern I should choose. I'm planning to make a mic clip as shown on your page, Terry, so I'm probably going to attach the microphone at the same position like you do. We usually don't turn the monitor volume very high, but you never know...we're not playing ceili music with a fairly uniform level of volume, but the new fancy schtuff like Lunasa etc. do, so I'm up in the third octave from time to time and the fiddler also produces an immense level of volume when he's doing growly double stops on his down-tuned fiddle. So a cardioid mike might fit the bill better...but I don't know! Any suggestions?

[Bridges-PdP]

I recently purchased an M-Audio MicroTrack II to record my flute practice, my lectures, interviews, etc. After a bit of research, I came across Giant Squid Audio Labs microphones. I currently use the Podcasting Omni Stereo Mics and couldn't be more pleased. They're very well made and the audio quality is very nice. Response is 20 to 20k. You might have a look at their powered stereo mics.

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/gs ... ttery1.htm

I use the non-powered version with my MicroTrack. I wrap a 1/4 wide velcro strip around the head about an inch either side of the embouchure hole, then clip each mic to a velcro strip. Easy setup, easy takedown. Nice quality. Darren at GSAL will build it about any way you like.

Scott

[eskin]

I'm with MTGuru on this, the SM58 does a great job on the flute, and I'm playing for a ceili/step dance band as well.

[Gabriel]

It certainly does, I tried it. But you can't attach it to the flute.

The Shure Beta 98s might be great, a few PA people recommended it to me for miking the flute. I'm going to try that one and a few others this week. If there's interest I could post some sample tracks here.

[Cathy Wilde]

This is cool. Thanks, guys! Very informative. And now I have to throw in my .01 (dropping dollar value, dontcha know) ... I have a sort of "strap on" lavalier mic (a "Pick Up The World Mini Mic") and feel like such a jerk because although it was the world's most well-researched and thoughtful gift from the guys in the band, it's also the biggest pain on the planet if you're one of those people who switches between flute and whistle. You have to turn down the volume, unplug the wire from the waist pack, carefully put the flute & wire combo down somewhere while the wire does its best to wind itself around the key arms, and then ... grab your whistle and go jump in front of an SM-58!

Of course, you can unwrap and rewrap the Velcro from flute to whistle and vice versa, but it just wasn't working for me; at least not with all the changing up I seem to do. Plus, the onboard version gives you nowhere to hide -- i.e., you can't back off the mic, which is something I really appreciate in times of need.

And then there's dragging another 1/4" guitar cord around the stage from the waist pak for your bandmates to step on, and let's not forget the looks many sound guys give you when you say you want a DI box, too and they've only got four in their gear totes or a limited number of direct inputs on their rigs.

So I'm back to one good old SM-58 (actually an old Audio Technica 110 when it's my own gear, but the same ideer) just because it's so much more convenient -- and I like the relief of knowing I can get away from the mic if (-- er, when) I screw up.

Just thought I'd throw that into the mix (pun intended ).

[MTGuru]

Actually, my friend and fine fluter, Ian Law, and I were talking about flute mike options just the other day. With his indulgence, a few of the small mike options he's devised and tried are here:

http://members.cox.net/wandalaw/flutemikes/main.htm

The first head bracket arrangement is similar to the silver Boehm microphone from Aungles:

http://www.leonaudio.com.au/aungles/

There's also the Velcro strap system from Microvox:

http://www.microvox.demon.co.uk/flutepage.htm

And, of course, various headset mike systems. Any of these can furnish ideas. But overall, I think unless you really need freedom to roam the stage or play amplified at a session table, a fixed mike and stand still gives the best combination of sound and control.

[libraryman]

I'm kind of ignorant about sound amplification. I know and have played into Shure SM58s, but don't really know what a lavalier mic is. I thought those were the kind you clip onto a lapel, but I wonder if it also encompases the kind of headset mic I saw Chris Norman using about a year ago now. ( Sorry Chris, but it was a bit Madonna looking). If not, what was it that Chris was using. Shure sounded good.

[jemtheflute]

I've got the Microvox, and it does a very decent job. It's big advantage (especially for someone who tends to perform with eyes closed a significant part of the time) is that it gets away from having to be uncomfortably close to short range mics like the Shures, with the risk of banging them with the flute and the annoying amount of breath noise and hiss or edge-tone they pick up. Ideally one wants to be at least a foot from any stand mike with a flute, from a playing and pick-up angle - and that is often incompatible with other sound engineering issues: even with a whistle I prefer to have the head window about 6" from a mic, not just a couple.

I agree with Cathy about the nuisance value of the cable from the strap-on mic to the belt pack, and that swapping it between instruments is a bit of a nuisance, though at least you can just turn down the volume on the belt pack and get on with it without irritating the sound engineer (apart from when you then forget to turn it back up after shifting it across and wonder why you can't hear yourself on the fold-back and the engineer is making strange gestures at you......!). The Microvox swan-neck strap-on is not that expensive (the belt pack is the main cost), so you could actually get 2 or 3 if budget isn't too much an issue and have them pre-strapped on instruments and just plug/unplug them to/from the belt pack - a little planning of your stage sequences for the set and you're away......

However, I also agree that the inability to back off from the mic is a limitation, and the Microvox seems to have a rather low pick-up/gain level and engineers seem to have to boost it rather at the desk to get a balancing volume (mind you, I don't like mine too close to my embouchure). it works well on larger whistles, too, but isn't too handy on high whistle or piccolo - it really needs a different design of the actual mic-mount and how the cable leads away to be comfortably useful on the small ones. I usually put mine between embouchure and tuning slide, not on the outer end of the head, which I don't like aesthetically or balance wise with the cable trail.

As for the instrument lead tether/spaghetti from belt power pack to DI box or desk, well you can always combine your strap-on with a radio set and be independent that way - nothing to trip over, but you'll look like a marine on exercise with all the clobber on your belt! I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a readily available integrated strap-on or clip-on mini-mic linked to an integral radio beltpack - by cable as at present, or even with bluetooth-type linkage. I daresay it will come - or someone will now tell us it's already available.

All that said, I usually like to have a stand mike as well on stage - especially if I'm going to use high whistles - so one still ends up in most contexts with a stand in front of one and using two mics/taking up two desk channels.........

[Gabriel]

Thanks for all your input so far!

@Jem, radio belt-packs with connectors for external microphones are available, but pricey. A good quality radio system with more than one fixed frequency (which is necessary if you travel around!) will cost well over 300 euros if quality is required. Sennheiser or AKG make nice hardware, but I prefer a cable as, at least in Germany, the UHF band which is used by this kind of hardware will be sold to wireless 3G providers in near future, rendering the audio-via-radio hardware unusable. Not a good investment to buy a radio set here at the moment...Bluetooth or any digital wireless technology is useless because of latency, hearing oneself 50ms after the note is played is a bit inappropiate. I have been told that the makers of such hardware are developing something new, though.

Regarding the ability to back off from the mic, that's not really important for me. That said, it is, but only for getting myself away from the mic! Coughing into the mike is quite unfavorable, but also unavoidable if one's using a headset. A microphone strapped onto the instrument isn't that critical then. And if I'm playing rubbish, it's too late when I notice it, so no need to back off...
I don't change instruments at all when I'm playing on stage (we're following the "less is more" philosophy with the band, so I don't need a bunch of different instruments on stage), so a single strap-on mic for the flute is sufficient. I do sing also from time to time and our fiddler (who uses a Fiddle Pro pickup - great little thing!) needs a mic for his bavarian cabaret moderation, so we're sharing a SM58 which I can use for whistles if needed.
I'm probably going to get the Shure Beta 98/S, it's only 11.7mm in diameter, so I can make a mic clip like shown on Terry's website for it. I'm not too fond of those little swan neck microphones, mainly for aestethical reasons. I prefer an unobtrusive solution like Terry's.

Thanks again for your input, much appreciated!

Edit: there's another issue that came to my mind: what about handling noise when mounting the microphone the australian way? I tried it by tying an old swanneck microphone with it's capsule onto the flute head and the results were disappointing. Clearly audible handling noise. I'm not sure if this experiment is representative, though. Any thoughts?

[Michel]

I too have a microvox! I have to say I am very pleased with the sound quality I get, and also I found that very often the PA guys don't have to work very much to get a satisfying sound, possibily because of the fact that the mic doesn't catch much wind hiss and there's no need to cut high frequecies. You could also get plenty sound in the wedge without feed back issues.. the only drawback is that the power pack is made with crap components.. the volume meter broke after 6 moths I had the mic, anyway I changed it with a better one..

As for the Shure Beta 98 you mention, make sure to try one before buying. I think I already had a go with one of these and found to be too heavy (even if very little) and also too sensitive (you could hear finger noises all the time).

Anyway as other already mentioned I too use a Shure 58 when playing with singers and the mcrovox when playing tunes only..

[Gabriel]

At the moment I'm frustrated enough to stay with my old condenser mic I used to play over! The Beta 98 probably will pick up too much handling noise, a Shure worker confirmed that. There doesn't seem to be one single perfect pickup system for flutes. I might look into the Microvox thing, but it somehow doesn't really appeal to me...and damaged PSUs after 6 months are something I'm not willing to accept.

Difficult world...