Projection

[daiv]

I'd agree with Daiv and Elaine - The diaphragm is absolutely essential and tuning of the vocal apparatus helps too. However, It is not for me a question of how to achieve these but rather a question of how do I build everything together into the desired end result. I can have my throat tuned to the note being played, wonderful support, good posture and a very good embouchure and still not project my tone very well. Before this change I already possessed and was consciously aware of all the tools which can be adjusted to achieve the projection

Interesting that Elaine mentioned the work with a corner of the room. For me that is not merely a "mental trick", but the actual root of how I achieve what I am aiming for. By listening to the sound in the room and fine adjusting everything I do to achieve the best result for that target then, when I have achieved my aim in terms of what I hear, I will also have achieved my aim in terms of what my listeners hear too. Going back to my playing before I tried all this, I find that I was listening to a virtual point directly in between my ears. Equivalent to "not projecting my tone beyond the boundaries of my own skull"? As indeed it now sounds to me when I deliberately do this.

And so, for now my job is to go away and make all this happen automatically and consistently when I play. And I still find it tricky piano.

Chris

i have to work on all this. i guess when i do all this, i do not just go for the throat tuning, but resonance. i like to feel within my head and fingers the most resonance i can, which is a physical and not auditory phenomenon. i agree that you can play with a clear, strong tone, throat-tuned yet not very resonant (which is not necessarily a bad thing). i wonder if resonant is the same thing as projecting?

i guess i never thought about projecting... i just assumed that if i could feel the resonance in my sinuses/mouth, that it was going to be as projective as possible. i usually am a very loud player, and dont have to worry about being heard. do you think that i might be missing out on something? i'm starting to think maybe.

[Flutered]

Just a thought, but has projection anything to do with playing a touch sharp. One generally knows when one is playing in tune with other people if the sound of the flute is merging well with the other instruments. But if projection is the issue, perhaps playing a little sharp, lifts the flute above the accordions etc., cuts through etc.

[david_h]

My comment about 'formants' above was because it was the word that stuck in my head after hearing a radio program ages ago about singers and it leapt out again on reading this thread. A good word to stick into Google. If I remember correctly (no time to read it up again just now) 'upper formants' are what trained (as in opera etc) singers create in their voices to improve projection but that folky type singers don't do (and I think why it often sounds wrong when trained singers sing folk songs). They are created by doing the sort of things that daiv talks about. But the other thing in that radio program was a comment about room resonance, about the performer having to learn to differentiate between what they were hearing from the room and what directly from themselves, and that what they were trying to optimise was the sound in the room that an audience was hearing. You sometimes hear acoustic performers commenting on how easy or difficult it is to 'fill the room'. That what the audience hear and what the performer hear are different is also mentioned in an Evelyn Glennie video on TED (Google it). I assume that that is where the playing the corner of a room or in front of a mirror comes in, but for projection maybe you have to listen to the whole room and differentiate it from resonances in your head.

Playing the room as well as the flute maybe. Does that make sense ?

[ChrisCracknell]

I think what david_h talks about with room resonance is the same as what I am thinking of. Only achievable when one also manages the other aspects mentioned here of projecting one's tone. Thoughts of playing to an audience on the moon would equate to trying to "fill" an outside venue - there all one can do is try to send out the tone as far as you can.

Decoupling the player's feedback from what is reaching him directly so that he (or she) can focus on the sound being produced in the room seems to be essential. This seems to be the key to unlocking things for me.

As for playing a bit sharp, the effect that I am talking about can be heard when playing solo so that rules tuning issues out.

[Cork]

...Thoughts of playing to an audience on the moon would equate to trying to "fill" an outside venue - there all one can do is try to send out the tone as far as you can...

Yes, exactly! Pick another planet, or pick another star, and then deliver your tone all the way to there, way out there!

Both opera singers and flute players need to "sing", sometimes loudly, and sometimes softly, but at all times they need to be clearly heard at a distance.

So, in practice, pick just one tone that's easy to play, then reach deep within yourself, and then project that one tone to the rest of the universe.

After that, it's just a matter of "spreading" the goodness of that one tone to all of the other tones of your flute.

That way, moreover, you could then play as softly and as quietly as you wish, yet still be clearly heard at a distance.

BTW, by doing it that way, you'll likely also find that the tuning of the flute then becomes a piece of cake, easily done!

And, you'll still have a full range of tonal "colors" at your command, from bright to dark.

Not a bad deal, eh? ;-)

[ElaineT]

Just a thought, but has projection anything to do with playing a touch sharp. One generally knows when one is playing in tune with other people if the sound of the flute is merging well with the other instruments. But if projection is the issue, perhaps playing a little sharp, lifts the flute above the accordions etc., cuts through etc.

No, not at all! You are confusing projection with standing out. Playing sharp is what bad players do and *think* they're projecting. There is never a legitimate reason to play an Irish flute out of tune, given the extensive amount of control we have over pitch. You may choose to place certain notes out of the classical scale (like a Coleman C), but that is a style choice, not a deficit in overall intonation.

Standing out is not a virtue, and it is not the same as projecting. Go listen to a really good Irish band like Lunasa or Solas. You'll hear a glorious blend of instruments that sometimes even sounds like a new instrument - the flufiddlepipertina. To get one instrument to stand out, the others play softly (or not at all) or someone plays a variation or harmony part.

Go to the symphony or opera for an evening and listen to classical players to understand projection. They will be in tune to the best of their ability, playing at a wide range of dynamics, and yet the winds and singers can rise above a sea of strings and be heard in the balconies with no amplification.

[Blackwood]

Playing sharp is what bad players do and *think* they're projecting. There is never a legitimate reason to play an Irish flute out of tune, given the extensive amount of control we have over pitch

I'm confused.

[Cork]

...yet the winds and singers can rise above a sea of strings and be heard in the balconies with no amplification.

Yes, that's what projection can do!

And, that's not all it can do!

Yes, there's more!

:-)

[Cork]

the way yer goin', yer gonna have to hire an editor soon

More than that, Denny, I have a sincere request.

That is, perhaps a C&F moderator could "sticky" this thread, please, as this thread really does address an elemental flute playing topic.

Granted, it's an "advanced" flute playing topic, but an essential one, regardless of whatever flute one might play, Boehm, Bansuri, Irish, or whatever.

[Denny]

Aw, it's good fer any wind instrument.....including voice.

Back in the 70s I was working in a warehouse, big warehouse. Ma stopped by to take me to lunch. The men in the front offered to send someone out to find me. When she quit laughing, she called my name, once, I answered from the far corner.
Oberlin, four year vocal scholarship. The men in the front were never the same.

[Julia Delaney]

I would like to know why Blackwood says "I'm confused." What is he confused about?
Perhaps he's referring to the normal meaning of projection: "Projection is attributing your own repressed thoughts to someone else," and wondering how it applies to flute-playing?

[david_h]

... it's an "advanced" flute playing topic...

And here was me a newbie thinking it was bound up with the advice to play long tones and listen.

[talasiga]

Yes David, I have said things like this all over the place,

What is music without audience?
Even in lonely times and places, the artless cave teaches
by her echoes.

.

These types of comments are informed by my experience since 1971 or so as a self taught flautist. But then, I am not ADVANCED.

If advanced players say the same thing then we get an ADVANCED topic.

(What makes an "advanced" player is the amount of "advance" the bankers within a style or tradition can provide).

[Terry McGee]

Now are we talking projection or loudness? My understanding of the terms is that projection is making yourself more audible at a distance than your loudness would normally achieve. Opera singers invoke fast vibrato to increase their noticeability. Classical violinists use exaggerated body movements (like showy bow strokes). Some woodwind players can direct more of their energy into the "presence band" (circa 3-4KHz) where the listener's ear is more sensitive. Some players come in before the accompaniment - first in, best dressed. Some instruments (like the fiddle) are directional - dropping the scroll so that the belly faces the back of the audience can probably direct a little more energy that way.

Sadly, the flute player has little room to move here, other than to play louder. Being a flow-based instrument, that equates to increasing the flow. There's even a limit to that (other than human) - non-linearities rise at an alarming rate to prevent the flute player becoming a danger to passing jumbo jets.

I have experienced one Irish wind player (in 40 years of flute playing) that achieved projection others could only dream of. Tim Whelan (senior) used to run a dance hall in Dublin before the advent of sound systems. His preferred instrument was the whistle, although he took up the sax for those times when the going just got too rough. He fabricated his own power whistle using the head of a recorder and the body of an English flageolet - the wide windway of the recorder head allowing more flow than the relatively thin windways we find on whistles of that time (the 1970's). But his real tour-de-force was his vibrato, which caused the whistle to sing high and clear over any number of other instruments. At first hearing it was startling, but it somehow fitted with his personality and we all learned to live with it, and then enjoy it, even though none of us were moved to emulate it!

Terry

[Flutered]

Go listen to a really good Irish band like Lunasa or Solas. You'll hear a glorious blend of instruments that sometimes even sounds like a new instrument - the flufiddlepipertina.

Maybe - but I'd don't think I'd be alone in observing that often the best Irish trad. is a bit rough about the edges - has that bit of heart and wildness. Smooth it out too much and you lose that - as evidenced by the over production of many modern CD's of trad etc. Many people here will have the Wooden Flute Obsession CD#1 - go to the Fintan Vallely track on that where he plays a couple of great tunes with that touch of wildness. That's the real thing, IMHO. I could be completely wrong, but I suspect that he may well be playing a bit sharp here & there.