Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
-
- Posts: 4245
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Salt Lake City
Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
Here's an editorial in today's Salt Lake Tribune taking a stance against a bill going through the state legislature. It's so ludicrous it makes you laugh, but they're very serious.
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_11820677
Basically, one of our LDS senators was disturbed when going to a family restaurant (Chili's) because he could see alcoholic drinks being made in the bar area. He says this makes it a bar atmosphere and shouldn't be allowed. His bill would require that all alcoholic beverages be prepared behind a wall at least ten feet tall--out of sight of customers.
Not only that, but the bill would also counteract a state Supreme Court ruling that said just being drunk isn't against the law. The senator's bill would make it against the law to even appear to be drunk!
There's another bill being voted on that would end Utah's weird private club law, requiring anybody who enters to have a "membership." This includes tourists who must pay a membership fee in order to get a drink (usually it's minimal, like $5-10, but is a real irritation). The governor and even the LDS Church have said it's okay with them to have this stupid requirement go away so that anyone could go into a lounge and have a drink without having to have a membership, but that's not good enough for this legislature. The bill has an uphill fight.
Would some of you please move here so we can increase the non-LDS population and get these idiots out of office!!!???
Thank you, Susan
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_11820677
Basically, one of our LDS senators was disturbed when going to a family restaurant (Chili's) because he could see alcoholic drinks being made in the bar area. He says this makes it a bar atmosphere and shouldn't be allowed. His bill would require that all alcoholic beverages be prepared behind a wall at least ten feet tall--out of sight of customers.
Not only that, but the bill would also counteract a state Supreme Court ruling that said just being drunk isn't against the law. The senator's bill would make it against the law to even appear to be drunk!
There's another bill being voted on that would end Utah's weird private club law, requiring anybody who enters to have a "membership." This includes tourists who must pay a membership fee in order to get a drink (usually it's minimal, like $5-10, but is a real irritation). The governor and even the LDS Church have said it's okay with them to have this stupid requirement go away so that anyone could go into a lounge and have a drink without having to have a membership, but that's not good enough for this legislature. The bill has an uphill fight.
Would some of you please move here so we can increase the non-LDS population and get these idiots out of office!!!???
Thank you, Susan
- CHasR
- Posts: 2464
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:48 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: canned tuna-aisle 6
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
susnfx wrote:Would some of you please move here so we can increase the non-LDS population and get these idiots out of office!!!???
Thank you, Susan
Well, we would if you had more bars out there!
My state's LCB (Liquor Contol Board) is a throwback to prohibition. The state of PA must first buy every single bottle of liquor, and the re-sell it in state-run outlet stores (StateStores).
Obviously, this system is open for rampant abuse; but its such a cash-cow, and patronage vehicle, for Harrisburg that there's really no impetus (except for us alkies that are tired of having to first find open statestores and then drive several places for groceries) to change it.
Most of us usually head over to NJ and buy wine + liquor in bulk.
But wait....
it gets even stranger concerning beer.
In a bar, I can buy bottles, cans, or beers on tap, (not that I personally would ever want to , mind you, but some do...) for consumption in the premesis,
but only expensive 4 paks, 6paks, (and the occasional single large bottle of malt liquor) to go.
HOWEVER, Cases and Kegs must be sold at seperate establishments (known locally as beer distributors), who'se patrons are not allowed to consume the product on premesis.
SO, the state ends up encouraging consumption of larger quantities of beer which must be consumed outside of bars, rather than higher priced single servings while patronizing a drinking establishment.
Furthermore, the state unwittingy increases revenue of wine and liquor sales in it's neighboring states rather than for its own income.
Lastly, the laws concerining which establishment has the right to sell liquor, beer and wine are positively Byzantine.
Go figure.
Last edited by CHasR on Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- mutepointe
- Posts: 8151
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:16 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: kanawha county, west virginia
- Contact:
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
No, but thanks for asking.
Rose tint my world. Keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
白飞梦
白飞梦
- mutepointe
- Posts: 8151
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:16 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: kanawha county, west virginia
- Contact:
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
I grew up in Pennsylvania and I have to say the State Store/Beer Distributor system is a bit of an inconvenience and you really have to plan ahead but I would gladly give up West Virginia's system where you can buy single cans and bottles at gas stations. What do you think that is promoting?
Rose tint my world. Keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
白飞梦
白飞梦
- CHasR
- Posts: 2464
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:48 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: canned tuna-aisle 6
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
Exactly. There's a happy medium somewhere in there that's just not being promoted, because too many have their snouts in the trough.mutepointe wrote:I grew up in Pennsylvania and I have to say the State Store/Beer Distributor system is a bit of an inconvenience and you really have to plan ahead but I would gladly give up West Virginia's system where you can buy single cans and bottles at gas stations. What do you think that is promoting?
Most sensible states have a single-entrance beer/wine/liq aisle in the grocery store with a dedicated staff, sometimes a security guard. This system would be fine for me: it encourages competitive pricing + innovative stocking, restricts minors, and promotes responsible consumption by being inbetween the cereal and frozen aisle.
- djm
- Posts: 17853
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:47 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Canadia
- Contact:
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
We have liquor control board stores for wines and spirits, and Beer stores for beer. The bars serve till IIRC 2:00 a.m. I remember being in New Brunswick where you had pay a membership fee to get a drink at any bar. That kind of stuff isn't all that unusual, but I agree, it's hard to believe it's still hanging around.
One thing I haven't seen here in a while is a men's entrance and a separate ladies & escorts entrance for all bars. Surely this is progress.
djm
One thing I haven't seen here in a while is a men's entrance and a separate ladies & escorts entrance for all bars. Surely this is progress.
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
- CHasR
- Posts: 2464
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:48 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: canned tuna-aisle 6
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
funny you should mention that:djm wrote:
One thing I haven't seen here in a while is a men's entrance and a separate ladies & escorts entrance for all bars. Surely this is progress.
djm
I drove past this joint sunday.
-
- Posts: 4245
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Salt Lake City
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
We have state-run liquor stores here too. In fact, they just recently passed a law requiring ... crap, what do they call those... the little bottles of wine coolers (here in Utah they're 3.2% alcohol) - "alcopops" ... anyway they now have to be sold in the state liquor stores because they're too tempting to teenagers.* So, they're now much more expensive. The only thing we can get in a grocery store is 3.2% beer.
*Suggestions that the stores actually check IDs as they're required to do were ignored.
Susan
*Suggestions that the stores actually check IDs as they're required to do were ignored.
Susan
- rebl_rn
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Southeastern Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
Well, living in Wisconsin things are a bit different.
Many of our liquor stores have drive through windows - gee, that wouldn't promote any bad behavior now, would it?
You can get beer and wine pretty much anywhere - many (though not all) grocery stores sell it. (The grocery stores that have separate-entrance liquor stores may not) Beer (six packs, 12 packs, cases) is at most gas stations/convenience stores. Hard liquor you have to get at a liquor store, but they are not hard to find - off the top of my head there are at least 5 of them in my town of about 8,000 people.
Many of our liquor stores have drive through windows - gee, that wouldn't promote any bad behavior now, would it?
You can get beer and wine pretty much anywhere - many (though not all) grocery stores sell it. (The grocery stores that have separate-entrance liquor stores may not) Beer (six packs, 12 packs, cases) is at most gas stations/convenience stores. Hard liquor you have to get at a liquor store, but they are not hard to find - off the top of my head there are at least 5 of them in my town of about 8,000 people.
Wash your hands. Cough and sneeze in your sleeve. Stay home if you are sick. Stay informed. http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu for more info.
- Walden
- Chiffmaster General
- Posts: 11030
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Coal mining country in the Eastern Oklahoma hills.
- Contact:
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
Not every non-LDS person is in favor of looser liquor laws. Oklahoma passed a bill a few years ago to allow liquor-by-the-drink, and not require club memberships. My family was firmly against it... we still are.susnfx wrote:
Would some of you please move here so we can increase the non-LDS population and get these idiots out of office!!!???
Thank you, Susan
Reasonable person
Walden
Walden
-
- Posts: 1163
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:52 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: south east netherlands
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
gosh............I never knew that things were like that in your country.
for someone not living there, it's quite hard to grasp WHY they do things this way........
BUT....I have a solution for you to offer: move to europe!!!!!!!!!!! nothing of all that kind of crap
berti
for someone not living there, it's quite hard to grasp WHY they do things this way........
BUT....I have a solution for you to offer: move to europe!!!!!!!!!!! nothing of all that kind of crap
berti
- Protean
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:51 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Amateur whistler for 14 years, amateur fiddler for 30 years. Haven't played either much in a while, looking to get back into it.
- Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
All these liquor laws sound just silly to me.
I can, any time I feel like it, walk into a grocery store and pick up a bottle of wine, a six pack of beer, a bottle of scotch, whatever. We have some dedicated liquor stores, too, but they're generally more along the lines of a specialty shop -- carrying items that your average grocer doesn't have the room or demand to stock. When Albertson's was still around, they had a separate liquor store attached to every one of their grocery stores. Even then, though, every Albertson's grovery still carried your basic wine and beer.
I know from experience that liquor laws don't do much aside from inconvenience people and drive business elsewhere (one county over from me is a dry county... the county I'm in gets plenty of business/money from that county).
The US is a bit prudish when it comes to alcohol. There are plenty of nations around the world with fewer laws and taboos concerning alcohol, and generally these nations have a much healthier view of alcohol and tend to abuse it less frequently.
At the risk of turning this into a PROCTology discussion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying a drink. The problem comes with drinking in excess. The same is true of pretty much everything. Gambling, for example, is not inherently wrong. Gambling excessively, though, is (ie. gambling away your mortgage, kids' college funds, etc.). With alcohol, it is so built up in the minds of some as this great legal taboo, that it becomes something to indulge in excessively. Hence, college benders, etc. It is seen as an adult activity by teenagers, as well as a handy-dandy way to rebel, so it is sought after more eagerly.
I'd love to wrap this up coherently, but I'm rather tired... so, you know.. uh.. debate!
I can, any time I feel like it, walk into a grocery store and pick up a bottle of wine, a six pack of beer, a bottle of scotch, whatever. We have some dedicated liquor stores, too, but they're generally more along the lines of a specialty shop -- carrying items that your average grocer doesn't have the room or demand to stock. When Albertson's was still around, they had a separate liquor store attached to every one of their grocery stores. Even then, though, every Albertson's grovery still carried your basic wine and beer.
I know from experience that liquor laws don't do much aside from inconvenience people and drive business elsewhere (one county over from me is a dry county... the county I'm in gets plenty of business/money from that county).
The US is a bit prudish when it comes to alcohol. There are plenty of nations around the world with fewer laws and taboos concerning alcohol, and generally these nations have a much healthier view of alcohol and tend to abuse it less frequently.
At the risk of turning this into a PROCTology discussion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying a drink. The problem comes with drinking in excess. The same is true of pretty much everything. Gambling, for example, is not inherently wrong. Gambling excessively, though, is (ie. gambling away your mortgage, kids' college funds, etc.). With alcohol, it is so built up in the minds of some as this great legal taboo, that it becomes something to indulge in excessively. Hence, college benders, etc. It is seen as an adult activity by teenagers, as well as a handy-dandy way to rebel, so it is sought after more eagerly.
I'd love to wrap this up coherently, but I'm rather tired... so, you know.. uh.. debate!
- s1m0n
- Posts: 10069
- Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:17 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
- Location: The Inside Passage
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
If I was legislator, I wouldn't do what the govenor says, either. I'd tell him that the legislature's job was making laws, and his job is carrying them out. When it's time for him to do so, we'll let him know.The governor and even the LDS Church have said it's okay with them to have this stupid requirement go away so that anyone could go into a lounge and have a drink without having to have a membership, but that's not good enough for this legislature.
And I'm not sure how to take your LDS Church argument. Do you think they should be telling you what laws are OK, or not?
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')
C.S. Lewis
C.S. Lewis
- MTGuru
- Posts: 18663
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:45 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: San Diego, CA
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
What does that mean, Walden? I'm not being flippant; I literally don't understand. Thanks!Walden wrote:allow liquor-by-the-drink, and not require club memberships.
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
- Innocent Bystander
- Posts: 6816
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:51 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth (UK)
Re: Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?
The word I would use is "Demented". I echo Berti's suggestion to move to Europe. Even if it's just to see what the possibilities are. And, like MTGuru, I'm mystified by Walden's "Liquour-by the-drink".Protean wrote:All these liquor laws sound just silly to me.
The US is a bit prudish when it comes to alcohol.
No Pubs in Oklahomah? Ya poor souls.
Wizard needs whiskey, badly!