Could Utah liquor laws get any more bizarre?!?

[susnfx]

Here's an editorial in today's Salt Lake Tribune taking a stance against a bill going through the state legislature. It's so ludicrous it makes you laugh, but they're very serious.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_11820677

Basically, one of our LDS senators was disturbed when going to a family restaurant (Chili's) because he could see alcoholic drinks being made in the bar area. He says this makes it a bar atmosphere and shouldn't be allowed. His bill would require that all alcoholic beverages be prepared behind a wall at least ten feet tall--out of sight of customers.

Not only that, but the bill would also counteract a state Supreme Court ruling that said just being drunk isn't against the law. The senator's bill would make it against the law to even appear to be drunk!

There's another bill being voted on that would end Utah's weird private club law, requiring anybody who enters to have a "membership." This includes tourists who must pay a membership fee in order to get a drink (usually it's minimal, like $5-10, but is a real irritation). The governor and even the LDS Church have said it's okay with them to have this stupid requirement go away so that anyone could go into a lounge and have a drink without having to have a membership, but that's not good enough for this legislature. The bill has an uphill fight.

Would some of you please move here so we can increase the non-LDS population and get these idiots out of office!!!???

Thank you, Susan

[CHasR]

Would some of you please move here so we can increase the non-LDS population and get these idiots out of office!!!???

Thank you, Susan

Well, we would if you had more bars out there!

My state's LCB (Liquor Contol Board) is a throwback to prohibition. The state of PA must first buy every single bottle of liquor, and the re-sell it in state-run outlet stores (StateStores).
Obviously, this system is open for rampant abuse; but its such a cash-cow, and patronage vehicle, for Harrisburg that there's really no impetus (except for us alkies that are tired of having to first find open statestores and then drive several places for groceries) to change it.
Most of us usually head over to NJ and buy wine + liquor in bulk.

But wait....
it gets even stranger concerning beer.

In a bar, I can buy bottles, cans, or beers on tap, (not that I personally would ever want to , mind you, but some do...) for consumption in the premesis,
but only expensive 4 paks, 6paks, (and the occasional single large bottle of malt liquor) to go.

HOWEVER, Cases and Kegs must be sold at seperate establishments (known locally as beer distributors), who'se patrons are not allowed to consume the product on premesis.
SO, the state ends up encouraging consumption of larger quantities of beer which must be consumed outside of bars, rather than higher priced single servings while patronizing a drinking establishment.
Furthermore, the state unwittingy increases revenue of wine and liquor sales in it's neighboring states rather than for its own income.
Lastly, the laws concerining which establishment has the right to sell liquor, beer and wine are positively Byzantine.

Go figure.

[mutepointe]

No, but thanks for asking.

[mutepointe]

I grew up in Pennsylvania and I have to say the State Store/Beer Distributor system is a bit of an inconvenience and you really have to plan ahead but I would gladly give up West Virginia's system where you can buy single cans and bottles at gas stations. What do you think that is promoting?

[CHasR]

I grew up in Pennsylvania and I have to say the State Store/Beer Distributor system is a bit of an inconvenience and you really have to plan ahead but I would gladly give up West Virginia's system where you can buy single cans and bottles at gas stations. What do you think that is promoting?

Exactly. There's a happy medium somewhere in there that's just not being promoted, because too many have their snouts in the trough.

Most sensible states have a single-entrance beer/wine/liq aisle in the grocery store with a dedicated staff, sometimes a security guard. This system would be fine for me: it encourages competitive pricing + innovative stocking, restricts minors, and promotes responsible consumption by being inbetween the cereal and frozen aisle.

[djm]

We have liquor control board stores for wines and spirits, and Beer stores for beer. The bars serve till IIRC 2:00 a.m. I remember being in New Brunswick where you had pay a membership fee to get a drink at any bar. That kind of stuff isn't all that unusual, but I agree, it's hard to believe it's still hanging around.

One thing I haven't seen here in a while is a men's entrance and a separate ladies & escorts entrance for all bars. Surely this is progress.

djm

[CHasR]

One thing I haven't seen here in a while is a men's entrance and a separate ladies & escorts entrance for all bars. Surely this is progress.

djm

funny you should mention that:



I drove past this joint sunday.

[susnfx]

We have state-run liquor stores here too. In fact, they just recently passed a law requiring ... crap, what do they call those... the little bottles of wine coolers (here in Utah they're 3.2% alcohol) - "alcopops" ... anyway they now have to be sold in the state liquor stores because they're too tempting to teenagers.* So, they're now much more expensive. The only thing we can get in a grocery store is 3.2% beer.

*Suggestions that the stores actually check IDs as they're required to do were ignored.

Susan

[rebl_rn]

Well, living in Wisconsin things are a bit different.

Many of our liquor stores have drive through windows - gee, that wouldn't promote any bad behavior now, would it?

You can get beer and wine pretty much anywhere - many (though not all) grocery stores sell it. (The grocery stores that have separate-entrance liquor stores may not) Beer (six packs, 12 packs, cases) is at most gas stations/convenience stores. Hard liquor you have to get at a liquor store, but they are not hard to find - off the top of my head there are at least 5 of them in my town of about 8,000 people.

[Walden]

Would some of you please move here so we can increase the non-LDS population and get these idiots out of office!!!???

Thank you, Susan

Not every non-LDS person is in favor of looser liquor laws. Oklahoma passed a bill a few years ago to allow liquor-by-the-drink, and not require club memberships. My family was firmly against it... we still are.

[Berti66]

gosh............I never knew that things were like that in your country.
for someone not living there, it's quite hard to grasp WHY they do things this way........

BUT....I have a solution for you to offer: move to europe!!!!!!!!!!! nothing of all that kind of crap

berti

[Protean]

All these liquor laws sound just silly to me.

I can, any time I feel like it, walk into a grocery store and pick up a bottle of wine, a six pack of beer, a bottle of scotch, whatever. We have some dedicated liquor stores, too, but they're generally more along the lines of a specialty shop -- carrying items that your average grocer doesn't have the room or demand to stock. When Albertson's was still around, they had a separate liquor store attached to every one of their grocery stores. Even then, though, every Albertson's grovery still carried your basic wine and beer.

I know from experience that liquor laws don't do much aside from inconvenience people and drive business elsewhere (one county over from me is a dry county... the county I'm in gets plenty of business/money from that county).

The US is a bit prudish when it comes to alcohol. There are plenty of nations around the world with fewer laws and taboos concerning alcohol, and generally these nations have a much healthier view of alcohol and tend to abuse it less frequently.

At the risk of turning this into a PROCTology discussion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying a drink. The problem comes with drinking in excess. The same is true of pretty much everything. Gambling, for example, is not inherently wrong. Gambling excessively, though, is (ie. gambling away your mortgage, kids' college funds, etc.). With alcohol, it is so built up in the minds of some as this great legal taboo, that it becomes something to indulge in excessively. Hence, college benders, etc. It is seen as an adult activity by teenagers, as well as a handy-dandy way to rebel, so it is sought after more eagerly.

I'd love to wrap this up coherently, but I'm rather tired... so, you know.. uh.. debate!

[s1m0n]

The governor and even the LDS Church have said it's okay with them to have this stupid requirement go away so that anyone could go into a lounge and have a drink without having to have a membership, but that's not good enough for this legislature.

If I was legislator, I wouldn't do what the govenor says, either. I'd tell him that the legislature's job was making laws, and his job is carrying them out. When it's time for him to do so, we'll let him know.

And I'm not sure how to take your LDS Church argument. Do you think they should be telling you what laws are OK, or not?

[MTGuru]

allow liquor-by-the-drink, and not require club memberships.

What does that mean, Walden? I'm not being flippant; I literally don't understand. Thanks!

[Innocent Bystander]

All these liquor laws sound just silly to me.

The US is a bit prudish when it comes to alcohol.

The word I would use is "Demented". I echo Berti's suggestion to move to Europe. Even if it's just to see what the possibilities are. And, like MTGuru, I'm mystified by Walden's "Liquour-by the-drink".

No Pubs in Oklahomah? Ya poor souls.