To Trad or Bash it Out?

[Ceili_whistle_man]

crookedtune,reading the article you refer to, James Hunter is a bit contradictory in that he says one thing but does another. For example he says; “But, when people are trying to preserve stuff -- you've got to be loyal to this or that kind of music -- that's so much nonsense."
So I must ask, what is he doing then? All he is doing is rehashing the sounds of the ‘classic’ soul era. Isn’t that preserving? He copies the moves of the great showmen of soul admitting; "I think I probably stole a couple of tricks from people who were already dead by the time I started." and this; "Stylistically, I'm more embedded, not in tradition -- I mean I'm not into genres -- but styles, you know." Okay, styles where are the Reggae twists on his songs or polka styles in his arrangements? Not there I’m afraid, because he is going against what he preaches when he says being loyal to a ‘kind’ of music is so much nonsense.
There is nothing ‘groundbreaking’ about what he doe’s, it is not even much of a departure from what was around in the mid 50’s and through the 60’s. His shows remind me of what Robbie Williams did with his Jazz/big band settings which were basically tribute shows. I think James Hunter is more like a Daniel O’Donnell of soul.
If he were to do what bands like ‘The Pogues’ or ‘Dropkick Murphy’s’ did and gave the music a kick up the rear, he may get that mainstream success he is wishing for.
After this was put to him: (you have) yet to achieve the mainstream success of British retro-soul contemporaries Amy Winehouse, Duffy and Adele. Could it be because they've found a way to blend contemporary lyrics with an older sound? he says; "I think that's my downfall, to be honest. I think they picked up on a trick that I'm trying, that I've mastered. I mean, I think they're as much immersed in contemporary stuff as the old days. I think that's pretty cool. I'm trying to do that."
Again contradictory, ‘a trick that I'm trying, that I've mastered, I’m trying to do that’, he’s all over the place.
We can only make assumptions from what we read in the article, maybe we aren’t getting him in full context, but there is enough detail there to conclude that he is contradicting himself somewhat.
Now as for his reference to ‘any music’ he goes on: ‘people at the time weren't treating it with reverence and they were sort of bashing it out’, so who were these people who were irreverently bashing out all types of music?
When is reverence of music too much reverence? Hey emmline, where would I find an example of this ‘excessive reverence’?

(oops, edit for glaring typo, I didn't have me spellin' glasses on )

[dubhlinn]

Lovely post

but did ye have to mention Dan.........the Antichrist.....

BTW..Emmline is a good poster....highly regarded in these parts.

Good post mind ye.

Slan,
D.

[emmline]

BTW..Emmline is a good poster....highly regarded in these parts.

What? Did someone diss me? I'll have to backtrack!

[emmline]

Hey emmline, where would I find an example of this ‘excessive reverence’?

Oh, I see. I'm just alluding to words used in the original post:

"I think the downfall of any type of music is to treat it with too much reverence, because the people at the time weren't treating it with reverence and they were sort of bashing it out, that was the beauty of it, the spontaneity," he says. "But, when people are trying to preserve stuff -- you've got to be loyal to this or that kind of music -- that's so much nonsense."

I guess reverence, and excess or paucity thereof, is an individual call.

[Denny]

Hey emmline, where would I find an example of this ‘excessive reverence’?

naw....just a request for an example

[emmline]

Now as for his reference to ‘any music’ he goes on: ‘people at the time weren't treating it with reverence and they were sort of bashing it out’, so who were these people who were irreverently bashing out all types of music?

But don't you suppose that what he means is that players of traditional forms--say, in a more authentic context, like the guys a hole-in-the-wall little pub where nary a tourist ever set foot--are playing without self-consciousness about whether they're adhering to the "rules" of the tradition?
They're just playing, because it's the way they learned it from other people in their purviews.
Obviously, this is what makes them "traditional," but the reason is, it never occurred to them to be anything else.
So, there's no reverence for the pureness of the form, per se, but the end result is still rather pure.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Nicely put Emm, thanks.

[djm]

But emm, this presupposes that they have had no other influences on their music, so that it cannot help but remain in the tradition.

djm

[emmline]

But emm, this presupposes that they have had no other influences on their music, so that it cannot help but remain in the tradition.

Yeah, I know. That seems unlikely. It's just what I think Hunter means.

[dubhlinn]

but the reason is, it never occurred to them to be anything else.
.

Lovely..

The people in question worked hard to survive, and the odds were stacked against them to begin with..
When they got any kind of a chance to cut loose they did. The music was the soul of the party.

Times change..

Hey Deej....read the notes on the back of the Bothys first...that sums it up..perfectly.
Slan,
D.

[cowtime]

miserable bunch of whining old hippies

They're just playing, because it's the way they learned it from other people in their purviews.
Obviously, this is what makes them "traditional," but the reason is, it never occurred to them to be anything else.
So, there's no reverence for the pureness of the form, per se, but the end result is still rather pure.

This is how it was for me, growing up with old time stuff. Folks just got together and made music, for fun and no one cared if it sounded a specific way. As a young kid I'd think" why do I have to go listen to this old stuff? It all sounds the same to me"...then it started sounding different and making sense..I learned the tunes I know from hearing them played over and over. Since then, I've heard recordings of these tunes,some in an earlier form which is quite different from what I learned, but when I make an attempt at playing them- I play them like the old folks played them back then 'cause that's the way I learned them initially.

The people in question worked hard to survive, and the odds were stacked against them to begin with..
When they got any kind of a chance to cut loose they did. The music was the soul of the party.

There's still places where that holds true.

As for soul- the listeners know whos got it and who's just making money with what's selling at a given time- once in a while a few can do both....