Irish trad on Boehm flute?

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:30 pm

I realize that most people here play simple system flutes for Irish music, but I know of at least a few who also know how to play Boehm flutes, so here goes.
I play (mostly) classical music on the Boehm flute, and I play Irish trad on the whistle, but there is of course something very wonderful about the sound of Irish trad played on the flute. I've had the opportunity to try several simple system flutes (and I owned a Dixon for a while this summer), but I've found it difficult to switch between simple system and Boehm flutes (mainly embouchure issues, although I'm also not a big fan of the finger stretch on wood flutes).
What are some of your thoughts on playing Irish trad on the Boehm flute?
Obviously, people like Joanie Madden, Noel Rice, and Sarah Allen (on alto) are quite proficient in doing this (so it can be done), but I'm wondering if there are any resources, tips, or insights that any of you could offer.
Thanks.
Micah

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:14 pm

It's OK, but I prefer the sound of the wooden flute.

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:10 pm

You could, of course, purchase a wood Boehm-system flute. The wood adds a wonderful warmth and depth to the Boehm flute. (Cylindrical bore, but hey, life is full of trade-offs).

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:20 pm

I have a wooden Boehm flute that I adore. It has a richness that is unequalled, but there is something warm about the intimacy of having nothing between the fingers and the sound. I love wooden simple system flutes, too. I think airs can sound better on the Boehm flute and faster stuff sounds better on the simple system.

SuiZen · Post by **SuiZen** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:55 pm

I'm sitting here, with my beautiful Boehm flute at my side, thinking about how to answer your question.

Prior to coming to this point, I played some classical, Irish, and Japanese tunes. The latter was the least satisfying, and that's why I play Japanese tunes on a Shakuhachi.

You can do slides (technique) on an open-hole Boehm flute, but finger vibrato is not satisfactory.

I think you should listen to Irish flute players, and work on imitating their technique, focusing on finger ornamentation and embouchure. I purchased Mel Bay's "Complete Irish Flute" by McCaskill and Gilliam. It quote, "presents the silver or Boehm flutist with a method for learning authentic Irish ornamentation". It's worth looking at, but it doesn't replace what you can get from a simple wooden Irish style flute (in my opinion). On the other hand, consider playing some challenging classical pieces on a simple flute.

http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=96332BCD

I think this would be a great topic for a dissertation.

Bill

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:10 pm

Some makers of fine simple system wooden flutes use a wood lathe to turn their instruments, some use a metal lathe....it's the end result that matters, not the tool.

If you really don't want to deal with simple system cone bore flutes, don't worry about it. You will however be missing out on something, these wooden simple system flutes do have a charm and intimacy that you don't get with the Boehm.

Loren

[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2003-01-10 21:19 ]

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:50 pm

The other Irish flute player in my country, Mike Spicer (and lurker on the flute board) was thinking of compiling a set of Boehm flute techniques for playing in the Irish style with regards to ornamentation and stuff. I'm sure he'd have something interesting to say about this since he is very much into exploring the usage of Boehm flutes in Irish music but I gotta coax him to write something...
Incidentally Mike's embouchure enables him to get a fairly Irish sound out of the silver Boehm. He plays simple system Irish flutes as well.

michaelS · Post by **michaelS** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:45 pm

Hello everyone,
Thanks Eldarion for alterting me to this topic. I havn't been lurking much (too busy)!
I have been playing ITM on the boehm quite a lot over the last six months, after playing a simple system flute almost exclusivly for a couple of years. Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I have been playing irish music on the boehm stating around 1984, but I didn't have the same perspective on it until I had the "wooden flute" experience. This changed the way I approach the tone production, and changed my approach to ornamentation. Having said that, I don't think that to play irish style on the boehm you NEED to play wooden flute first, you just need a more "irish" perspective, which you can probably get listening, reading the internet, playing whistle etc. One problem is that there are specific technical hurdles to overcome that are not covered in the standard litrature, such as using the xxxoxo fingering for f# when it is conected to an E, playing B like xoooXo when you have to play those EBEB type passages (drousy maggie, toss the feathers etc). These help you to play fast passages with less finger movment than the "normal" classical fingerings, whcih are a bit awkward. (Classical players do use the alternative fingerings too, but my experinces are that players that don't take lessons to the point where the pieces they are playing require the alternative fingerings don't know about them! Other techniques include using the thumb key and the trill keys to perform cuts, instead of (or as well as) the technques discussed in the online flute and whistle tutorials. The question of tone is also important, as the metal boehm can sound a sickly sweet IMHO. Unfortunalty, I havn't really workd out how to comunicate how to do it yet! 30 years of flute playing training the neural network that contols my mouth etc makes the process unconcious, as Elderaion found out when I tried to explain it to him, much to his frustration. It's much easier to demonstrate. One thing to note, is that this stuff works better on solid silver, open hole flutes, but is still applicable to student models. In the middle of the year, when my MSc is finished, I am thinking I might do a web page about the "irish" metal flute techniques I have adopted, if anyone is interested, as there doesn't seem to be my info on this topic around. BTW I don't consider myself an expert on all this, I'm just telling you my observations. I would really like to hear about other peoples experiences and their "tricks and techniques".

Michael Spicer

Dave Parkhurst · Post by **Dave Parkhurst** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:41 pm

Boehm flutes are nice, wonderful volume...but a simple system flute (as Jessie says) is such an intimate instrument to play, and I find I can simply get so much more feeeeeling out of it. However, I still have pipe dreams (flute dreams?) of owning a Powell or Abell wood Boehm system flute someday. If it does for Boehm flutes what wood does for simple system flutes, I'll have reached Nirvana. For right now, I'll have to settle for messing with the 6-key simple system I picked up on Ebay and am overhauling(and as always, my trusty Copley keyless).
Dave

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:58 am

Thanks for the replies. I agree totally about the intimacy a simple system flute offers. There's great elegance in its simplicity. So in theory I'm very drawn to them.
However, when it comes to playing them, something doesn't click quite right.
The other thing is that I've invested 14 years in learning to play the Boehm flute, and fairly recntly I just purchased a nice new one, so I'd like to stick with the investments I've made. I can get a range of sounds out of it, including a 'tougher' more Irish sound. It's the ornamentation that's tricky with all those keys flapping around. Perhaps that Mel Bay book would be a good thing for me to look at.
I agree, Loren, that it's the end result, not the tool, that dictates one's success. To that end, I'm listening to a lot of Irish trad and playing in sessions to get a good feel for the music, including phrasing and rhythm.
Michael, thanks for your really interesting post. I'd be most enthusiastic if you put together a website detailing Irish technique on the Boehm flute. Like you, I haven't been able to find anything like this out there.
Micah

[ This Message was edited by: Micah on 2003-01-11 10:07 ]

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 9:57 am

Lately the flute I grab first when I want to play is a simple system, though I have a Boehm system flute standing on the rack, too. Wood (lack of metal keys covering the holes of the D scale) is somehow warmer in winter.

Dave, I was in the Cincinatti airport (in Kentucky - hee) for about a half hour yesterday and I was remembering the wonderful time I had with you and your family...if I'd had a couple of hours, I would have called you guys to come meet me. Perhaps next time I fly out, I'll fly through there and set up a really long layover, like a couple of days.

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:20 pm

Michael,
Do you have any suggestions for the best way to roll on E and F#?
Micah

energy · Post by **energy** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:49 pm

I thought I'd point out that most of the Irish Boehm system players are from east Galway. Two of the best known examples of this style are Mike Rafferty and Jack Coen.

The east Galway style is noted becasue of it's sparse ornamentation, use of flat keys(made possible by the chromatic Boehm), and very melodic "flow". Anyway, the Galway style is very well suited to Boehm flute, so might want to look into it.

If you want a CD with east Galway flute playing, you could try Paddy Carty's "Traditional Music of Ireland", though he plays Radcliffe system and not Boehm. I'm not aware of any solo offerings from either Coen or Rafferty. Joe "Box" Burke also has a flute CD in the Galway style, and you could get the gist of the style from that, but he plays a simple system...I'm afraid I'm not aware of any CDs exclusively of Irish music played on Boehm system. Maybe somone could give some references...?

energy · Post by **energy** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Also thought I'd post a link to this, it's someones description of the East Galway flute style:

http://www.oblique-design.demon.co.uk/f ... alway.html

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 1:51 pm

Nate,
Thanks for pointing out the East Galway connection (and for the link). I actually have recordings of both Jack Coen (Warming Up) and Mike Rafferty (The Road to Ballinakill). They have others, too. I've thought of getting that Paddy Carty album as well. As far as recordings exclusively with Boehm flute, all I know of is Joanie Madden (with Cherish the Ladies), and Noel Rice (with Baal Tinne), who I've never heard.
http://my.ais.net/~krice/baal%20tinne.htm
Micah

[ This Message was edited by: Micah on 2003-01-11 14:52 ]