input please? a sad experience...

[jiminos]

... earlier this week i received a new Dixon DX203D brass whistle with brass tuning slide and Delrin fipple.... it arrived, i was appropriately excited... i played it... i was completely deflated...
why?

i play my dixon trad every day. i love the ease with which it plays. it jumps octaves painlessly, quickly and cleanly. it has great intonation. i play my feadog every day. i love the ease with which this whistle also plays. it is quick. it is responsive. it jumps octaves quick and clean. neither whistle requires an "aggressive approach" to play in the upper octave. such as, for example, the susato D or C. of course, both whistles are much quieter, as well.

so... i, in my incredibly shallow wisdom, thought i would get a little bit more of a "higher end" whistle... i figured since i love my dixon trad, a dixon 203 might be a good choice. it is much heavier. it has wonderful thick walls. it has great tone and intonation. it is a pure sounding whistle. the bell note is a tad weak (sadly.) but, for me, the great shock was the amount of "work" it took to keep the whistle in the upper register. i was stunned. perhaps because i was expecting something akin to the dixon trad. guess i was wrong.

now for the input please part.... those of you with experience with the higher end whistles... what whistles would you recommend (or would you even) and why would you recommend the whistles that you do? i am hoping for something with a strong bell and lower register... an upper register/octave that does not require "aggressive" playing such as the susato requires... something with a very pure tone/timbre... something that will last a longggggggg time.... i am not "too" worried about the cost. and, i suppose it is fair to include that it should be taken into account that i am fairly new with the whistle... only about a year or so....

or... should i just shut up... go back to my corner and play the feadog and be happy?

TIA,

be well,

jim

[WyoBadger]

Jim,
A couple of thoughts. First, if you're happy with your trad (I love mine, too) and feadog, why worry about getting a high end whistle? I'll never forget the time a bunch of us caught the Chieftains in Denver, and there was Paddy playing a battered Generation with tape on the finger holes to bring them into tune. You don't have to have a fancy whistle to be good. The WhOA crowd will say I'm crazy (come on, guys, don't let me down ), but there is a lot to be said for contentment.

As for the new toy...my advice is to keep it and get to know it. I haven't tried the DX203d, or most other high-end whistles, but the few I have tried seem to like being played a certain way. Learn how to play them the way they want to be played, and they will sing for you. If you keep this Dixon and get to know it, you might come to appreciate its quirks.

Sounds like you're in a good situation though--you've already found two whistles you love. You just need to decide whether the learn to love a new one, or stick with what you know. Can't go wrong with a choice like that.

Tom

[henryz]

As another inexperienced whistle player, I've shared your disappointment (though not with a high-end Dixon). My 2 cents worth would be:

1. Let the Dixon "age" for a while - it will improve with time.
or
2. Sell the Dixon and get a Blackbird (plays vaguely similar to a Trad, but seems purer to me).

The Trad and Blackbird have given me the most playing satisfaction per dollar spent.

[chas]

1) For something that plays effortlessly and is even across the octaves, I'd recommend a Burke. If you're willing to go wooden, the easiest playing whistle I've ever owned was an Abell. I seemingly just had to think second octave and it was there.

2) I'm with badger that, if you have a couple of whistles you really like, stick with them.

3) I've never played a Dixon, and I've played quite a few, that I'd characterize as having a strong bell note.

4) 3 illustrates how different, different players are.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Unfortunately WyoBadger, jiminos is starting to show the early stages of WHOA, and it is a known fact that 'contentment' and 'WHOA' do not sit well together!!!!!
Give your new Dix' a bit of time jiminos, it does take longer to train yourself to play whistles that have more demanding breath requirements. I found my Susato low D took a different approach to playing when I first got it. I got used to the air requirements, and contrary to some observations, it does not need more air, just a more controlled and focussed airstream.
I have found that although I can handle the air requiremnts of the Susato low D, I have never liked its sound. (update) I have just had a bit of a blow on it, still don't like it. Taste is subjective, there are many, many more people out there who love them, I just can't stand them.
Plod on jiminos, you will get to a point where you will either love it or hate, (and for all the right reasons) but it is really too early in your playing to ditch the whistle if thats what you are contemplating.

[jiminos]

thanks, all.... i was so disappointed that i sent the dixon back to the seller already...
yes, i am sure i am in the early (and, thus far, uncurable) stages of WhOA. i am pretty sure i don't want to go wood... i really ... really... really like the sound of brass....

i have learned that every whistle is or seems to be unique. i've learned that susatos have specific demands from the player.... and i would rather demand from the whistles than have them demand from me.... but... i suppose that is not likely to happen. i will just have to learn to adapt to the whistles. but.... with that said... i would still rather play a brass whistle that doesn't demand so much as to take the fun out of it. the feadog is a fun whistle... goes where i want it to go when i want it to go there... the only shortcoming of the feadog (for me) is the tone....

so... i guess i'm looking for something that plays similar to the feadog, but has a purer (?),.. cleaner (?)... what is the word i'm looking for?... not as rough a sound as the feadog.... i really like the sound of the susato kildare S bore D that i have... but i hate working that hard to go to the second octave...

that help any?

be well,

jim

[Thomaston]

Like was said, a higher price just not always mean a better whistle. It sounds like you have whistles you like already, so why continue the search?
But, if you really want a high-end recommendation, I think you'd find a narrow bore Burke fits your requirements.

[MTGuru]

You'd probably like a Burke, any Burke, wide or narrow. Pretty much the ultimate no-thinkum out of the box session whistle, IMO. It's a favorite go-to whistle for me. What you give up is some chiffy trad sound, and the motivation to master some trad technique that other whistles demand. What you gain is ease, and a fatter, purer (though some say blander) tone. Horses for courses. Since you're doing so well with the Dixon and Dog, I wouldn't give them up entirely.

I've tried more expensive Dixons and not liked them. But for me the Trad remains a favorite in its class.

[jim stone]

Indeed, there are some burkes for sale on this (and the used instrument) board.
Good as new at a considerable saving.
hint, hint......

[PhilO]

There are two higher end whistles that are less expensive than several others that come to mind first - Burke and Sindt - can't be beat and I find nothing finnicky about the playability.

Philo

[Wanderer]

When I was new to playing, I was totally disappointed when I tried a couple of Abells--I'd had a toot on EJ Jones's (from the band Clandestine) and Joe Linbeck's (from the band The Flying Fish Sailors). I'd thought that they'd be easy and sweet and the music would just flow.

But my experience was a lot like yours: Boy they are a lot of work! I ran into the same problem when I tried to play a session friend's Copelands. It just took more effort to play the upper octave than I was comfortable with.

Over the years, though, I've learned that some instruments, while not necessarily easy to play, definitely give you back every effort you put into them. For every newbie that complains about Susatos, I can only point to Kevin Crawford (as a famous example) or our own Jim Peeples as examples of people who have learned to tame the beast.

Abells are among my favorite whistles to play, now. Once you grow accustomed to a whistle's requirements, you stop thinking about them, and then, you start being able to explore what the whistle can do, rather than spending all your time fighting for notes. The effort can be enlightening and rewarding.

[okstatepiper]

I too started with the Dixon Trad. and the Generations. Love the Trad, hated the Generations (got all six). Then moved up in price to O'Brien set. Liked them, particually the Bb, but found myself playing the Trad just as much if not more. Then, finally, saved for a Burke. While it is a good looking instrument and sounds very nice, it was harder to play. Kept going back to the Dixon. I kept the Burke nearby and would always rotate it in during practice. Then, I got used to it and now almost all of my public playing is with the Burke. The good thing is that I learned what it does very well, so my jigs and reels are on the Burke and the airs are on the Trad. Just keep at your new whistle, it will grow on you.

[oregonden]

Jim,
All the comments for your thread are very helpful. I've found that after hours and hours of playing over the months with plenty of rest or breaks in between, we learn how to play our whistles. Our ears become trained to hear and our fingers learn where to be placed to play our personal favorites.
Then, a kind of magic happens. We pick up a particular whistle and having worked with and having learned the requirements for it, discover (or re-discover) that it's a wonderful whistle. And, a song we know so well sounds great on it. As been said many times, learn melodies you really like and each whistle you play will bring a different and delightful musicality for your enjoyment. Just my two cents from a geezer newbie who doesn't play out:) Just have fun!
Dennis

[jiminos]

thank you, again, everybody! wow.

Jim Stone: subtle... very subtle

MTGuru: thank you... you were spot on before when you helped me. i've learned to listen to you.

thomaston and PhilO: the burke seems to getting the nod here. thank you.

wanderer: thank you. i am sure you are completely right. my own extremely limited go with the susatos taught me that they are demanding whistles. and loud... as bad as i play, i think my neighbors, the pets, the dogs in the next county would all concur that loud is a bad thing

okstatepiper: i've no intention of giving up my trad or my dog. i really enjoy playing them and i love the sound. i even like the sound of the walton... too bad the intonation is so stinking bad on the one's i've tried....

again.. thank you everybody... each day i play my dixon trad, my feadog, and i have C and D clarke megs that are a joy to play. the susatos sit in the corner unattended... maybe someday... i have a gen Bb that i enjoy as well. i'm sure i will not "turn my back" on the Trad or the 'Dog. but i would like to have one very nice higher end whistle. (from what i've read, i don't have near as many whistles as most of you

be well,

jim

[riverman]

You'd probably like a Burke, any Burke, wide or narrow. Pretty much the ultimate no-thinkum out of the box session whistle, IMO. It's a favorite go-to whistle for me. What you give up is some chiffy trad sound, and the motivation to master some trad technique that other whistles demand. What you gain is ease, and a fatter, purer (though some say blander) tone. Horses for courses. Since you're doing so well with the Dixon and Dog, I wouldn't give them up entirely.

I've tried more expensive Dixons and not liked them. But for me the Trad remains a favorite in its class.

Hear! Hear! Burkes are forgiving and easy to play. (Though my new Burke aluminum A requires much more push in the two highest notes than my older model Burke Bb. It took some time, but I am totally used to it--unless I go back to the Bb! Then I honk it all over the place overblowing. Whistles that want more pressure in the upper octave can be gotten used to. Give it a few weeks.
...and then buy a Burke anyway!!!