Tounging on the whistle

[riverman]

I have a question for the experts:
I was listening to my Grey Larsen Tin Whistle Toolbox Tunes CD in the car, and I noticed that he has this really puffy kind of tonging when he hits the notes. It seems like he almost releases a little burst of air into each note. I tried this on my Clarke original, and it seems to sound good. Previously, I had been making tounging as gentle as possible, releasing no "burst" of air (or as little as possible). I kind of like what I think Grey Larsen is doing. What do you think?

[brewerpaul]

If you like it, do it.
Some people frown on tonguing on the whistle at all, others use a lot of tongue.
I like to vary it from tune to tune, often even within a tune. It's another way of adding variety to the music. (I'm not a total tradition stickler)

[markbell]

Geez, I was gonna answer, but then I saw that the question was for experts...

[FJohnSharp]

Grey plays a lot more flute (at least that's what he played exclusively at his workshop) and maybe that technique is a fluting technique for getting those chiffy accents.

[riverman]

Geez, I was gonna answer, but then I saw that the question was for experts...

Actually, it's quite easy to qualify as "expert" for me, since I have only played a few years and have no experience with I trad music, except CDs.

[Rhadge]

Bill Ochs also has a pretty "chiffy" sound in some of his tunes, in his tutorial recordings.
I don't like it personally, since I think it gives a "renaissance" feeling when used frequently. I base that on nothing but gut feeling by the way, I have no facts to back it up that it would have any connection with that time period.

And sorry for answering, being no expert. Thought I'd share my opinion anyway. One can always disregard what I'm saying.

[MTGuru]

I don't have the Larsen CD. But there are all sorts of single tounging syllables possible:

TA - DA - SA - RA (flapped R) - KA - GA - KHA (like German CH) - LA - LYA - LLA (like Welsh LL) ...

Then there are the vowel variants:

TA TI TÜ - DA DI DÜ (German Umlauts) ...

As a fluter, Grey also uses glottal stops / fricatives / affricates, which give a puffy effect (no good English representation, maybe QA and QHA).

Experiment!

[riverman]

Thanks, All!

[walrii]

fricatives / affricates

From anyone but MT, I'd bet these were made-up words. Either one would make a good name for a band.

[jiminos]

i remember once, in grammar school about 50 years ago, getting in trouble for, as the teacher so eloquently informed the principal..."James was producing bi-labial fricatives which disrupted the class significantly." the principal asked me if it was true... calling forth the greatest calm i could muster in the face of the certain oncoming storm, i announced... "i didn't do nothin' like that whatever he said... i was doin' a Bronx cheer like my grandpa taught me."

two weeks detention.... pththththththtpthththpthththpthththt!!!

be well,

jim

[crookedtune]

I grew up fifteen miles from the Bronx, but we called 'em raspberries.

[Protean]

Yeah, I had to Google that one. I was pretty sure it was just a raspberry, but... just had to be certain.

[MTGuru]

I don't think there's a specific linguistic term for a sloppy bilabial fricative. Technically, the raspberry is a bilabial trill. An example of a true bilabial fricative would be a Japanese "f" sound.

One of my favorite whistle consonants is a retroflex affricate "ts". Say the "ts" sound as in "Tsar", but move it way back against the roof of your mouth (behind the alveolar ridge). That's it.

It's a distinct articulation, but but it doesn't stop the flow like a regular "t" sound does. It keeps the tip of your tongue close to the top of the mouth for quick articulation. And you can emphasize the smooth "s" sound, or emphasize the "t" sound and let it explode with a little puff of air for emphasis.

Maybe that's what Grey Larsen is doing.

[Mick Down Under]

Wow, I joined up for the whistle knowledge and now I'm learning biology and Higher english as well...What a Bonus .


Mick

[riverman]

I don't think there's a specific linguistic term for a sloppy bilabial fricative. Technically, the raspberry is a bilabial trill. An example of a true bilabial fricative would be a Japanese "f" sound.

One of my favorite whistle consonants is a retroflex affricate "ts". Say the "ts" sound as in "Tsar", but move it way back against the roof of your mouth (behind the alveolar ridge). That's it.

It's a distinct articulation, but but it doesn't stop the flow like a regular "t" sound does. It keeps the tip of your tongue close to the top of the mouth for quick articulation. And you can emphasize the smooth "s" sound, or emphasize the "t" sound and let it explode with a little puff of air for emphasis.

Maybe that's what Grey Larsen is doing.

Yeah, that works!