Epiphanies I don't envy...

[s1m0n]

I'm reading a book about the Cathars, a 13-14th century heresy centered in sourthern france; eventually to be wiped out by a combined crusade / inquisition declared by Pope Innocent III*

Here a passage from a chapter of background explanation in the book:

At the turn of the first milennium, A peasant called Leutard in the village of [place in Northern France] had a dream. In it, a swarm of bees attacked his private parts, and then entered his body - presumably throught his urethra. The dream, rather than making Leutard wake half the village with his screaming, inspired him to go into his local church, break the cross above the alter and descecrate an image of Christ.

But he didn't stop there: he sent his wife away and began to preach openly in the village, urging whoever would listen that they should withold payment of tithes. The Bishop of Châlons got wind of the peasant's activities, but Leutard threw himself down a well before he could be apprehended.

That's a doozy of a conversion experience, but still, better him than me....

*This is the same crusade in which Innocent's (papal) legate, Arnold Amaury, finding a town in Languedoc where 220 or so accused heretics were sheltering amongst 15,000 or so innocent townsfolk, resolved the ensuing impasse with the immortal words, "Kill them all. God will recognise his own." It was the feast of St Mary Magdalene (July 22) in the year 1209. The crusading army with Amaury then sacked the town, killing between 9 and 15 thousand townsfolk (including women and child sheltering in the cathedral, which was burned), and looted the remains.

[Innocent Bystander]

The suppression of the Cathars was brutally effective. Now nobody knows exactly what it was the Cathars believed. We can guess, that's all.

[djm]

Nothing like a good sacking and looting in the morning to give one a righteous appetite.

djm

[Coffee]

Something good to keep in mind when reading things about back then: the water wasn't safe. They knew that. Instead, they drank beer.
Really strong beer too, since it'd have to be to have any real shelf-life. And your average soak drank maybe two liters a day.
No wonder they're called the dark ages! Nobody could remember anything! (And those that could were crazy from lead poisoning.)

[djm]

Why lead poisoning? As I recall, that didn't become a really big issue until tinned goods were introduced in the 19th century (soldered with lead).

djm

[The Weekenders]

Romans used lead pipes, but I don't know if any of 'em were still in service by middle ages.

Cathars were a trip. I casually study all things Gnostic, because it helps make what is orthodox understandable.

[Nanohedron]

Why lead poisoning? As I recall, that didn't become a really big issue until tinned goods were introduced in the 19th century (soldered with lead).

djm

Here's a snippet on lead and Rome. Lead-sweetened wine! *shudder*

[Doug_Tipple]

In October I visited the San Francisco Plantation, which is on the bank of the Mississippi between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, Louisiana. One both sides of the plantation mansion were round water tanks made from wooded staves, like large wooden barrels. Runoff water from the roof was funnelled into these wooden holding tanks. What is relevant to this topic is that there were lead plumbing pipes with spigots that fed the water into the house. This mansion was built just prior to the Civil War, so lead plumbing pipes were state of the art in 1860 in the southern USA.

[Coffee]

Lead was also widely used in roofing and rain gutters and that kind of thing.

[Charlene]

If they used pewter dishes and cups, there used to be lead in pewter.

[cowtime]

When boiling crushed grapes, Roman vintners insisted on using lead pots or lead-lined copper kettles. "For, in the boiling," wrote Roman winemaker Columella, "brazen vessels throw off copper rust which has a disagreeable flavor."

OK I get the lead- but Boiling???

[peeplj]

When boiling crushed grapes, Roman vintners insisted on using lead pots or lead-lined copper kettles. "For, in the boiling," wrote Roman winemaker Columella, "brazen vessels throw off copper rust which has a disagreeable flavor."

OK I get the lead- but Boiling???

I am only guessing, but I suspect it was to kill bacteria which would increase shelf life of the finished product.

--James

[Walden]

Here a passage from a chapter of background explanation in the book:

At the turn of the first milennium, A peasant called Leutard in the village of [place in Northern France] had a dream. In it, a swarm of bees attacked his private parts, and then entered his body - presumably throught his urethra. The dream, rather than making Leutard wake half the village with his screaming, inspired him to go into his local church, break the cross above the alter [sic] and descecrate [sic] an image of Christ.

But he didn't stop there: he sent his wife away and began to preach openly in the village, urging whoever would listen that they should withold payment of tithes. The Bishop of Châlons got wind of the peasant's activities, but Leutard threw himself down a well before he could be apprehended.

That's a doozy of a conversion experience, but still, better him than me....

It sounds as if it were the version of the story told by his enemies.

[cowtime]

I am only guessing, but I suspect it was to kill bacteria which would increase shelf life of the finished product.

I don't know.... they wouldn't know about bacteria and all the fun little bits that cause problems? and they didn't know to clean things to avoid the bacteria at that time did they? it says they boiled the juice, maybe they had noticed they had less illness if they did that... the fermentation process would take care of the bacteria in wine- and believe me the juice is full of bugs, etc. so there would be plenty of bacterial contamination....

I just wonder why they boiled the juice? much less the wine..if that was "off" or "spoiled" no amount of boiling would make it drinkable...

hmmmm........

[Denny]

Here a passage from a chapter of background explanation in the book:

At the turn of the first milennium, A peasant called Leutard in the village of [place in Northern France] had a dream. In it, a swarm of bees attacked his private parts, and then entered his body - presumably throught his urethra. The dream, rather than making Leutard wake half the village with his screaming, inspired him to go into his local church, break the cross above the alter [sic] and descecrate [sic] an image of Christ.

But he didn't stop there: he sent his wife away and began to preach openly in the village, urging whoever would listen that they should withold payment of tithes. The Bishop of Châlons got wind of the peasant's activities, but Leutard threw himself down a well before he could be apprehended.

That's a doozy of a conversion experience, but still, better him than me....

It sounds as if it were the version of the story told by his enemies.

dunnit!

threw himself down a well.....