Embouchure: how to, and why to...

[Denny]

wow man.....I can't believe he hasn't learned a new tune since the early 70s!!!

did get a new flute somewhen since
doesn't help much.....

[daiv]

wow man.....I can't believe he hasn't learned a new tune since the early 70s!!!

did get a new flute somewhen since
doesn't help much.....

you're so... funny? i guess that's the word for it....

talk to you guys all later. i'm done for a while. i guess i got defensive, and so i reap what i sow. thank you to anyone who had anything meaningful and constructive to say.

[Henke]

Daiv, I don't think anybody ever said that you can't express your opinion. But if your opinion is that "your way works, but mine is much better" and you write long posts of instructions on how to do it your way, I think anyone should have the right express a different opinion. You have written the same sort of stuff in numerous threads, and I get it: it works very well for you this embouchure. Good for you, and I don't think it's wrong that you tell anyone who is interested how you do it, on the contrary. But I do not agree that your method is the "best" (or the most flexible, whatever you choose to call it, it all seems to have the same meaning) for everyone at any time. You said at one time in another thread that Seamus Egan is "wasting energy" with his embouchure. Very difficult to tell judging by a video or a soundclip, but I think it sounds like you might be wasting a lot more energy. Even if I did go on to explain in detail the method I use, I would never dare say that my method is any better than that of a renowned professional, when I am myself just a happy amature. In fact, I certainly wouldn't claim that my method is any better than yours eighter.
I do respect your thoughts on embouchure, seems like you've put a lot of effort into that. And I wouldn't discourage anyone from giving it a try and see if it works for them. But I do not like it when you make claims that your way is the best there is. And I hope nobody buys into that. As far as I'm concerned, the embouchure is something that everyone has to discover for themselves, find out what works best for them.

And to Julia Delaney: I must warn you. I'm very susceptible to flattery. Even when it's completely undeserved.

Now, lets get back to the important matters...
Blast! It's way too late. I'm heading off to bed now, without having gotten a good night
whisky

[deisman]

wild & crazy thread - throat tuning! Throat Tuning! Mine's tuned to F for froggy.

Can't believe I read all this muck.

nite folks,

Deisman

[hans]

Apart from the upmanship ("my approach is the better") and the sneers a most interesting thread, and I thank all who made huge efforts to describe the ways of how one can form an embouchure.

Perhaps "throat tuning" can be described in a separate topic, it is certainly a new concept to me.

I am a little concerned though, that by exercising my "frowning muscles", as Daiv put it, my general facial look will become, over time, more sombre and less smiling. I suppose it may get balanced with lots of smiling and laughing when not playing the flute, so all may not be lost. Otherwise I could grow a beard again....

Anyway, thanks!

Hans

[Denny]

throat tuning, from:

IrTrad-L
Dean N. Stallard

[Liney Bear]

As far as I'm concerned, the embouchure is something that everyone has to discover for themselves, find out what works best for them.

Spot on. Best advice yet.

[Cork]

Well, I tried.

Moreover, I'm glad to discuss any differences in technique, but I have better things to do than to argue.

Goodbye!

:-)

[G1]

I think valiant efforts were made by all here. Sometimes, in sharing our views I think we begin to seek validation along the way. No harm in that - but can lead to defensiveness, if not kept in check personally.

That said; since switching from Boehm to simple system flutes I have paid more attention to my embouchure than I have since I was a grade schooler with my first clarinet. I consumed with great interest every post I could find here on technique (and still do, to a degree). An old dog learning new tricks needs to be open-minded.

I appreciate and thank those like Cork and Daiv for sharing their experience and technique - particularly when it can include the "why" of it. I also completely agree with Henke & Liney Bear; which I don't believe devalues the sharing of information that has transpired here one bit. It's the control device for all of the information absorbed.

For a while, I intensely forced the 'frown' technique - which nearly drove me to give it up. One day in the country, with new flute in hand - I played for the pure joy of being there, and suddenly the instrument was speaking free and easy. I realized the corners of my mouth were neither smiling nor frowning, but were relaxed; and muscles closer to the center of my mouth were actually doing the work. Ever since, I have been thoroughly enjoying playing this flute instead of worrying over it.

Everyone needs to find their own 'center', and go from there... but it's just possible that all this sharing of technique and opinion may be the very road that leads to that center. Nobody ever said it was easy, who had a lick of good sense... but it can be a walk in the park.

Happy New Year!

[Denny]

but some lottery tickets soon, yer on a roll!

may the journey never end

[G1]

I have moments of clarity..... oops - no, it's gone again.

[Denny]

it's just the "Hero/sh*t Head" thing.....

kinda like a metronome
back & forth/back & forth

[flutefry]

I can't resist posting this again, which I know is buried here somewhere in the archive heres, but it's pictures of flute players with good tones, to illustrate how many different embouchures can give good tone:

http://www.larrykrantz.com/embpic.htm

On the same website (http://www.larrykrantz.com/embchang.htm) is a statement by a flute teacher, Patricia George, which I have abstracted below (omissions shown by "...."

"Over my years of teaching, I have changed very few student's embouchures. I prefer to think of embochures evolving into what the player needs to be successful....You must remember that each of us is a different size--I have students ranging in size from 6'4" down to elementary sized students. Yet, we play the same sized flute. Each of us has a different face--some lips seem to aways be in a smiling position at rest--others have more of a downturned expression and then most of us are a combination of the two--one side up and other side down. So, obviously each of us will look different when we play the flute....I would suggest you let your ear direct your embouchure changes. Work for sound and agility and when you have it where you want it, you will look like what YOU need to look like to get the best results."

I think that these provide additional support for the some of the comments above, namely that your embouchure is individual, and it's up to you to find what works for you.

Best,
Hugh

[chas]

Lemme add another fluter with great tone:



Would anyone call that a pout? I'll point out that Chris Norman doesn't have strong views on exactly how one should hold the flute, the shape of the embouchure, etc., he's interested in the resulting tone and flexibility.

[Julia Delaney]

I'll bet anything that this kid hasn't read this discussion, wouldn't understand it if he did, and spends more time playing the flute than talking about it.