brand-new Shaw A--now what?

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:34 am

On 2003-01-06 20:10, JMcCYoung wrote:

A tweak of which I have read but which I haven't tried myself is to put small segments of insulated wire of the thickness of the windway between the wood block and the top. It's cheap and reversible and I've *heard* it cuts down the air requirements without sacrificing the quality of the sound.

My apologies if this has come up before, but I haven't read it on the board, for what little that's worth.

John

Thanks--I hope to try this.

Now...I'm having an "oh my God!" moment--you're the son of John Young, a co-worker of mine until last May. I had no idea you were interested in anything but Latin.

Very best regards to you--I admire your dad greatly and have enjoyed some of the interesting e-mail that you've shared with him--which he then shared with me.

Marguerite Plank

_________________
Marguerite
Gettysburg

[ This Message was edited by: mvhplank on 2003-01-07 07:34 ]

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:01 am

It seems Shaws are often, if not unanimously, criticized for their fipple end.
Did anyone attempt "hybridizing" a Shaw, for instance with a plastic mouthpiece out a Kerry or Howard, or whatever ?

[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2003-01-07 08:02 ]

Tim Hall · Post by **Tim Hall** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:54 am

Hi
Why not ask Dave about it? Since he made the thing, perhaps he would have some suggestions about reducing the wind requirements.

http://www.daveshaw.co.uk

Best,

Tim

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:18 am

Marguerite, I've never had an opportunity
to come to terms with a Shaw--
I picked up the low D a couple
of months ago in Lark of the Morning,
Mendocino, and I could play it alright.
I've been swimming and walking lots,
and playing some other breath demanding
whistles, too. I liked the low
D, but they wanted 115, which seemed
high, and they caught me trying to
slip out of the shop with it
hidden in my shirt.

So I don't really have a strategy,
percussive or otherwise, except that
I would play the thing for a couple
of weeks and see what develops.
I figure the mind/body/heart
may sort this out naturally; also
your wind may improve.

But if it's really impossible,
as perhaps some Shaws are, I
wouldn't persist indefinitely. Best, Jim

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:23 am

On 2003-01-07 09:18, jim stone wrote:
I liked the low
D, but they wanted 115, which seemed
high, and they caught me trying to
slip out of the shop with it
hidden in my shirt.

I ordered one over the web from Elderly for $75. I got mine ~6 months or so ago, but last I knew they hadn't raised their prices.

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:29 am

On 2003-01-07 08:01, Zubivka wrote:
It seems Shaws are often, if not unanimously, criticized for their fipple end.
Did anyone attempt "hybridizing" a Shaw, for instance with a plastic mouthpiece out a Kerry or Howard, or whatever ?

This beast is one piece (thus non-tunable) and conical. I think swapping out a mouthpiece would be a bit more involved than a hot-water soak. Interesting idea, though.

M

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:36 am

No cone some washers, or a well-selected O-ring couldn't compensate.
What's the outside diameter of your A, below the blade or where one would logically cut it ?
Not only plastic mouthpieces take care directly of the tuning above a single tube (thinking Sindts, maybe Reyburn too? and probably others).
And there's always the theoretical alternative of seppuku for a Susato with appropriate diameter...

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:41 am

On 2003-01-07 09:18, jim stone wrote:
[snip]
So I don't really have a strategy, percussive or otherwise, except that I would play the thing for a couple of weeks and see what develops. I figure the mind/body/heart
may sort this out naturally; also your wind may improve.

But if it's really impossible,
as perhaps some Shaws are, I
wouldn't persist indefinitely. Best, Jim

I don't think the whistle's "impossible"--I did spend some time working out some tunes with my friend. It's just that I expect my lungful to go farther because of previous experience.

My plan is to learn its individual characteristics so I can put it through its best paces.

Dashing off in the wrong direction for a moment--I'm reminded of a trend I observed when I was covering horse shows. You'd see rich hobbyists on high-priced European "made" horses going up against underfunded but hard-working, talented riders who had to make the most of what they had. The rich folks didn't win unless they also had talent. Some of the not-rich riders would have won on a mule because of their greater understanding of the possibilities.

That's why I'm reluctant to blame the whistle.

M

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:25 am

Go for it, I say.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:48 am

On 2003-01-07 09:41, mvhplank wrote:
I don't think the whistle's "impossible"--I did spend some time working out some tunes with my friend. It's just that I expect my lungful to go farther because of previous experience.

I had a Shaw D, and I gave it away because I thought it took too much air for a whistle. My problem was not the inability to supply adequate air to the whistle. There are long phrases in many traditional tunes, and for me there was no getting around the frequent necessity of taking a breath in the middle of a phrase. To accomplish this without creating an awkward break can be extremely difficult, nigh unto impossible, at least for me. (The phrasing difficulty with breath-intensive whistles may be why Paddy Moloney said that the Clarke C was "not suitable for airs".) I circumvented this problem in the most obvious way by putting aside the Shaw and using a more suitable instrument. Apparently this solution is not appropriate in your case. Tweaking by reducing the size of the airway might help, but it could make an already quiet instrument unacceptably quiet. I think you're just going to have to take more frequent (and possibly deeper) breaths. This will require careful planning when coping with extended phrases, or else it will sound extremely amateurish (in the bad sense of the word). Anyhow, good luck in your struggle with the Shaw.

tuaz · Post by **tuaz** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:53 am

On 2003-01-07 09:41, mvhplank wrote:

I don't think the whistle's "impossible"--I did spend some time working out some tunes with my friend. It's just that I expect my lungful to go farther because of previous experience....

...hard-working, talented riders who had to make the most of what they had. The rich folks didn't win unless they also had talent. Some of the not-rich riders would have won on a mule because of their greater understanding of the possibilities.

That's why I'm reluctant to blame the whistle.

M

I have a Shaw A which someone bought for me about 1.5 yrs ago. I like its warm flutey tone. But I have to admit it takes lots of air. So while one doesn't want to blame the instrument, one has to be honest about what it is.

I agree that with lots of practice, work and breath-building exercises, playing it will get easier. Certainly in recent times, it has seemed to me when I pick up the Shaw, that I'm able to play longer (relatively) phrases on it than before.

However, I need to be able to play a low A in church RIGHT NOW and not at some future time, and I need to be able to do it without passing out [sorry, exaggeration].

So I bought a Dixon tunable low A, and it's my regular A.

I won't sell my Shaw, because I still like the tone a lot, but I may never get to a satisfactory level of breath control and lung capacity to enable me to play it more regularly or in public.

But like jim, I say go for it, if you have time for practice/training, and no requirement to play it in public soon. It's not impossible, I think. And the tone may make it worthwhile if you like that sort of sound.

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:00 am

Thanks, Tuaz.

It's true that it takes more air and I'll have to make allowances for that. But it also offers possibilities for playing in a slightly different register.

Practice IS what it will take, and practicing with a thoughtful gift is not a hard thing to do--as well as being a way of saying "thanks."

M

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:21 am

Mantra to self - small-minded people don't matter, small-minded people don't matter, small-minded people who disagree with me just because they know I have a lot of whistles, don't matter.

Ok, Marguerite. Let's get into it. In your original post, you said you were having trouble with your new Shaw A whistle, that it was taking so much breath that you didn't think you could ever make it to Low D, which saddened you because you had really wanted to play a Low D. You talked about the key of A and how frustrating it was for you to play it. I wanted to let you know that hope was not lost on your Low D aspirations.

What I ACTUALLY POSTED:

Marguerite, it's the Shaw, not the key of A, that's giving you the problem.

So, of course, you started being rude to me, acting as if I was not being helpful, just because you like to disagree with me. Instead of being rude back, I posted a bit about what I did to improve a too-breathy Clarke. I am a jeweler and I am handy with the rubber mallet. You went on to thank other people for their tweaking suggestions and complained about mine as if it wasn't valid.

In a later post, you said:

Sorry, your "get another whistle" approach isn't helpful. If you have a constructive suggestion that will help me to best use a thoughtful gift, I'd be interesting in knowing it.

Now where did you see a suggestion from me to get another whistle? In mentioning that, sometimes, blaming tools for poor result (or extreme difficulty and physical hardship) is absolutely valid, I was responding to your comments, where you felt it necessary to put me down. In this, you insult not only my unappreciated help to you, but also my musicianship.

Examples:

On 2003-01-07 07:26, mvhplank wrote:
I believe placing blame is a slippery slope toward avoiding personal responsibility

You say that if you have a dull knife, you get it sharpened. Well, if you have a strappy pair of sandals that are ok for summer picnics and you have plans to climb Mount Everest at some point, as much as you practice walking in sandals, you better get yourself some boots before you set out for the base camp. (Low A Shaw to Low D by another maker)

I'm reminded of a trend I observed when I was covering horse shows. You'd see rich hobbyists on high-priced European "made" horses going up against underfunded but hard-working, talented riders who had to make the most of what they had. The rich folks didn't win unless they also had talent. Some of the not-rich riders would have won on a mule because of their greater understanding of the possibilities.

I am not a rich horse racer! I do have talent as a musician, but why would you care about that?

Ok, so apparently, you dislike me so much that you will take everything I say the wrong way. I am a musician and I believe that, whenever possible, instruments should help, as opposed to hinder, the music, but I was just honestly trying to explain to you what the problem was so that you would know that you could, indeed, play a Low D made by another maker at some point in the future.

YOU have been totally rude to me.

~Jessie

tuaz · Post by **tuaz** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:43 am

oh yes,

I really shouldn't have made that "passing out while playing" remark. I've just tried playing various tunes on my Shaw, and certain tunes are playable without too much trouble
(note: I used minimal ornamentation for the experiment, but I did try to accent the appropriate notes by blowing with a little more "push").

River is wide: fine.
Mountain Road: well ok, one gasp for air in the middle of one phrase, but the rest of the tune was quite do-able by dropping a few passing notes (same with Merrily Kiss the Quaker's wife)

On the other hand, I couldn't handle Inisheer, Rip the Calico, Drowsy Maggie without taking inappropriate breath breaks. The 2nd octave also takes more out of you.

It doesn't depend on whether it's a slow air or a fast piece; the issue is whether the piece has appropriate spots for you to sneak a breath. If you can breathe at the right time, holding long notes at the end of a phrase in a slow piece is not a problem.

So it's a matter of finding pieces that work for now, while working on increasing your lung capacity. Of course, if you could tweak it to reduce its air requirements, that would also help.

[note: since I don't play my Shaw that often, and the results weren't too bad, I think with practice even the air-intensive pieces will get easier. But will I take the time to practice? Probably not.]

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:50 pm

On 2003-01-07 11:21, JessieK wrote:
[snip]
YOU have been totally rude to me.

~Jessie

Huh? You're reading more between the lines than I wrote--that is, looking for offense where none was meant.

M

_________________
Marguerite
Gettysburg

[ This Message was edited by: mvhplank on 2003-01-07 15:52 ]