Buying a cheap beginners' flute online: advice etc.

[Ar_Hwak]

Hello,

I'm planning to buy an irish flute and need some basic advice. This subject is probably old and dull and irritating, forgive me please.

I live in Helsinki and am a student. Helsinki is a place where whistles are hard to find and flutes are scarce. Also I have very limited funds.

Therefore I'm looking buy a cheap beginners' flute (0 - 60€, possibly a bit more) to start with. Ive looked around on sites that sell them, but its hard to tell a good (or tolerable) cheap flute from an awful, useless cheap flute. I'm aware that you don't buy flutes like you buy whistles.

So can anybody reccomend to me a good (or tolerable) cheap flute and post a link to a (european) website that I can order from?

Thanks in advance.

[Clinton]

http://www.hamiltonflutes.com/

Do a little bit of searching on C&F (or Google...) on Hammy Hamilton, and "Hamilton Practice Flute". You will get lots and lots and lots of information! I have not personally played one of his practice flutes, but there is a lot of good info on them. Since you are looking for a European source, I guess Tipple in the US is out? I have one of his D flutes and it is wonderful as well. Certainly inexpensive, but not "cheap".

Clinton

[ElaineT]

I'll second the Hammy practice flute. I've played most of the inexpensive flutes, and the Hammy is pretty much the best. It has a very beginner-friendly embrochure cut, and blows very much like a wooden flute. It's the only cheap flute I've played that has a really solid bottom D. The sound is acceptable, although you will always be able to tell the difference once you have a better flute. The only drawback is that it's not tunable, but you can blow it into tune if the session is not unusually flat or sharp.

[Henke]

Yes, the Hammy practice flute is a good idea to start with. Plus, Hammy reported a while back that he has started making them with twistable heads. I'm unsure if that means tunable, but it probably does. I don't remember how the second octave tuning is (that's usually an issue with cylindrical flutes if the headjoint is cylindrical too), but you will probably have gotten a conical wooden or delrin flute by the time you feel ready to bring it to a session anyway
The sound of these practice flutes are good, and the embouchure cut is close to that of a proper wooden flute, as mentioned earlier. This should be enough to get your feet wet, and you can decide later if the wooden flute is really for you.

Tipple flutes also get great reviews, and I'm not sure the shipping is that much more expensive from the states, plus you have a couple of more options with them (not like you really need a lot of options at this point, but anyway.)

Anyway, good luck to you, and the best of
whisky

[Ar_Hwak]

Yes. Thank you.You got me perfectly.

Tax returns came in today and I'm Hamilton-bound!

[jemtheflute]

There is a member of this community called Markus Asunta who is a very fine ITM fluter and who lives in Helsinki, I believe. Might be worth you getting in touch with him for advice/support.....
Markus C&F Profile
http://www.myspace.com/asuntamarkus
http://www.fintrad.net/.

This may be too late, but I would definitely recommend a Tipple over a Hamilton for a starter flute as Hammy has not (so far as I understand it) done anything in his practice flutes to address the octave intonation issues inherent in an all-cylinder bore flute; Doug has (his wedge). Otherwise I'd say they're equally good.

[hans]

This may be too late, but I would definitely recommend a Tipple over a Hamilton for a starter flute as Hammy has not (so far as i understand it) done anything in his practice flutes to address the octave intonation issues inherent in an all-cylinder bore flute; Doug has (his wedge). Otherwise I'd say they're equally good.

Are you speaking from experience, i.e. have you tested a Hammy practise flute, or from theoretical consideration, i.e. cylindrical bore with no head taper => problems in second octave tuning; cylindrical bore with wedge => problem solved?

~Hans

[plunk111]

I wasn't going to chime in on this one at the risk of offending someone, but... I second jemtheflute on the Tipple recommendation. I've played both and owned a Tipple for a long(ish) time. The Tipple is just plain easier to play than the Hammy - well, at least the Hammy practice flute that I tried. It also has a better sound - again, based on limited experience with the Hammy. I'm not sure, but I think the Tipple is cheaper as well...

Pat

[jemtheflute]

Are you speaking from experience, i.e. have you tested a Hammy practise flute, or from theoretical consideration, i.e. cylindrical bore with no head taper => problems in second octave tuning; cylindrical bore with wedge => problem solved? ~Hans

My experience of Tipples is apparent on Doug's YouTube page.... and I've been fiddling with his flutes with his approval/interaction - a bit stalled at present due to time pressures, but all will out in due course (I have no commercial interest, however). I've also a fair amount of experience in the past with trying to get all-cylinder conduit tube flutes optimally tuned between the octaves - and plenty of grey hairs! I have not actually laid hands on a Hammy Practice Flute, but have read detailed descriptions of them including on this forum, and that includes opinions that I trust regarding the 8ve tuning issue. I can speak to the 8ve intonation of the Tipple from direct personal experience but only to the theoretical aspects of the Hammy, but my theoretical expectations are supported by actual reported experience of others. Hammy is a fine flute maker and a grand man and has I'm sure optimised his practice flutes within the limitations of their design, and I daresay they have excellently cut embouchures, but without some kind of bore correction (which they do not have so far as I have read anywhere), they WILL (from theory) go flat in the 2nd 8ve (and have been reported to do so in reality): I intend no disrespect, but if I was looking to buy in that part of the market, I'd choose Tipple. The wedge is not a total cure for the intonation problems, though - just the best I've come across. If you look on eBay for Calmont (or check them out from the Makers List) you will find that they make conduit tube entry level flutes with a Boehm type head - the best theoretical solution..... I haven't actually tried one of those either, but they may be worth your consideration. Aesthetically I don't much like them, though - clunky, ugly fittings...... but if they play OK, they're in your price range. The basic Dixon poly-tube flutes are also all-cylinder, and those I have played (have one in a box somewhere!) - don't go there - waste of money.

[ElaineT]

I've tried both, and more than one instrument from each maker. When I was a beginner on flute trying to convince my face to form a flute embrochure rather than a clarinet one, the Tipple was easier to blow. After a few years on good flutes, I find the Tipple extremely limiting. In contrast, I can get an almost session-worthy tone out of a Hammy practice flute.

Disclaimer: This is my personal experience, which may or may not apply to other players!

[Doug_Tipple]

I've tried both, and more than one instrument from each maker. When I was a beginner on flute trying to convince my face to form a flute embrochure rather than a clarinet one, the Tipple was easier to blow. After a few years on good flutes, I find the Tipple extremely limiting. In contrast, I can get an almost session-worthy tone out of a Hammy practice flute.

Disclaimer: This is my personal experience, which may or may not apply to other players!

I think that Elaine is playing one of the flutes that I sent to Michael Eskin in southern California. For a time while Michael was still playing flute and not a whole host of other instruments, he was testing different flute designs for me. It was he that suggested that I try making a 3-piece flute and a flute with a greater embouchure depth (lip plate), for example, and both suggestions have proved to be valuable and have greatly improved my flute.

As many of you know, for years I made flutes with rather small circular embouchure holes. Elaine is correct in that they are fairly easy for a beginner to play but they do have limitations. I have since enlarged the area of the embouchure hole on my flutes. I'm still in the design phase here (working on this with Jem in Wales), but my agressively cut current embouchure of about 10.5 mm x 11.5-12 mm) is a much more conventional embouchure design, allowing more air into the flute. If you have the chops to handle a larger embouchure hole, a large cylindrical bore (20 mm), and large finger holes, my new flute has a lot more possibilities and is a more powerful flute. My original flute with the smaller round embouchure will still be available by request.

[drewr]

I've tried both, and more than one instrument from each maker. When I was a beginner on flute trying to convince my face to form a flute embrochure rather than a clarinet one, the Tipple was easier to blow. After a few years on good flutes, I find the Tipple extremely limiting. In contrast, I can get an almost session-worthy tone out of a Hammy practice flute.

Disclaimer: This is my personal experience, which may or may not apply to other players!

I think that Elaine is playing one of the flutes that I sent to Michael Eskin in southern California. For a time while Michael was still playing flute and not a whole host of other instruments, he was testing different flute designs for me. It was he that suggested that I try making a 3-piece flute and a flute with a greater embouchure depth (lip plate), for example, and both suggestions have proved to be valuable and have greatly improved my flute.

As many of you know, for years I made flutes with rather small circular embouchure holes. Elaine is correct in that they are fairly easy for a beginner to play but they do have limitations. I have since enlarged the area of the embouchure hole on my flutes. I'm still in the design phase here (working on this with Jem in Wales), but my agressively cut current embouchure of about 10.5 mm x 11.5-12 mm) is a much more conventional embouchure design, allowing more air into the flute. If you have the chops to handle a larger embouchure hole, a large cylindrical bore (20 mm), and large finger holes, my new flute has a lot more possibilities and is a more powerful flute. My original flute with the smaller round embouchure will still be available by request.

Wow, Doug. When do you expect these to be available for sale?

[pipersgrip]

I would say Casey Burns' Folk Flute. You really can't beat the quality and price. http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ff.php

[Henke]

I would say Casey Burns' Folk Flute. You really can't beat the quality and price. http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ff.php

Well, if you can find one of those for under 60 Euros, you let me know ok?
whisky