Any Case Against "Easy Playing" Flutes?

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:48 pm

I sometimes read beginners' comments about so-and-so's flute being "easy to play", or giving a "consistant good tone" and wonder if such comments actually speak positively of the flutes in question.

It has occurred to me recently that flutes that easily give a consistantly good tone to a beginner's embouchure might also be flutes that aren't so beneficial to the learning flute-player. The flute might not be sensitive enough to detect, and react to small differences in the embouchure. I believe that when most beginners are finding their embouchure, there will small differences/inconsistancies all the time - explaining the airy sounds and weak tones, good days and bad days.

Not only that, it may be that such flutes don't provide enough challenge to the learner's embouchure by responding "acceptably well" to any ol' flow of air thats directed over the flute's embouchure hole. This may deprive the learner of a properly developed and focused embouchure in the long run.

Moreover, it also doesn't say very much about the palatte of tonal colours availible to the fluteplayer on such flutes since any stream of air across the embouchure hole creates an "acceptable" sound.

I think some top flutes are considered harder to play for the beginner->average flute-player because of this. Every minor adjustment to the lips causes a change in timbre and response from a great flute, from hard to sweet, to honky to barky, grainy and dry to smooth and buttery. (and of course bland to hissingly airy, weak to absolutely no sound at all for people who are just starting out on developing embouchures).

In my conclusion, I would like to state that "easy-playing" flutes are very fine for someone who is just dabbling in flute playing but I think it may not be so good for the serious beginner.

At the same time I don't mean to say that all flutes that are hard to play for a beginner = good flute. A good example will be the infamous Pakistani flutes which are probably hard to get a good sound out of, beginner or not.

What do you guys think?

[ This Message was edited by: Eldarion on 2003-01-05 00:03 ]

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:17 pm

I think you hit it squarely on the head!

This is an interesting point...I'd be interested to see if any of the Big Names like Harry or Conal want to add their thoughts to this thread.

Best,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:35 pm

I see your point, but I disagree. I think a flute being easy to play certainly does not make it an inferior flute. An instrument should help, not hinder the music. It should be an instrument to express the player's music. That said, "easy to play" and "beautiful tone" are two different things. For instance, in my opinion, Eugene Lambe flutes are easy to get a solid tone out of, but I find the tone boring. Same with M&E old model flutes. Conversely, Wilkes flutes are hard to get a strong tone out of, but when the player does, it sounds incredibly beautiful. A nice balance, though, can be found in an Olwell flute. I think Olwell flutes are easy to play AND they sound great.

~J

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2003-01-05 00:46 ]

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:51 pm

Well, a player who can get that strong vibrant tone on a Wilkes, then...imagine what they could do on an Olwell!

There is something to be said for a flute that's easy to blow, but it may also be true you learn more and become a better flutist from playing one that resists your first efforts more.

I think there are good points of both sides of this.

Best,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:53 pm

I know you asked for a 'Big Name' to respond, but hey, my name has two syllables, so I thought I'd answer.

I don't think I'd put any stock into anything said about how 'easy' to play a flute is. I guess I find that I disagree with much I've read from many flute players. You tend not to hear very accomplished players talking about a flute being 'easy;' the talk tends to center around the tone, the responsiveness, the volume, etc. A more responsive flute isn't easier to play than a less repsonsive one, it just simply can adjust more quickly to octave shifts, for example. Some other flutes, ones that I put into the highest category, tend to be amazingly forgiving of variable fingerings for gracings. My Olwell makes a nice tone for each of the gracenotes in the relatively complicated piping cuttings that I like to use. I've played other flutes that fall apart, but the Olwell sounds nice and bubbly.

I'm not meaning to discount what 'beginners' say about how easy a flute is to play, either; but I think the 'ease' of play may just mean that the cut of the embouchure is more similar to what that person has played before . . .

Anyway, as the embouchure develops, even on a single flute, I think it gets to the point where it's much easier to switch flutes. I can hear the differences between the Olwell, Byrne, and Grinter embouchures, but I wouldn't say that any one is easier to play than the other.

Any of that make sense?

Stuart

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:09 am

On 2003-01-05 00:51, peeplj wrote:
it may also be true you learn more and become a better flutist from playing one that resists your first efforts more.

Everyone is different, but many of us are doing this just because we love it, and I know that I, for one, am motivated by the good sounds that come out of the instruments I play. I am much more likely to stay at it (flute playing or anything else creative) when it comes easily and sings than when it is frustratingly difficult.

The masters can sound amazing on beaten up old instruments sometimes, but I think stubborness partly accounts for why they stick with it, and of course some sentimentality and affection for the instruments to which they are accustomed. Matt Molloy used to say that he had an Olwell waiting for when he couldn't fill his old (antique) flute anymore, but he wasn't going to give in and be lazy just yet. I think that's pride talking, not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm sure he was also comfortable with that flute after playing it for so long.

There's nothing wrong with starting on a forgiving and beautiful instrument.

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:33 am

Well I for one am all for easy blowers. I am for the easiest to play flute there is. After 3 weeks of doing a pretty good impression of wind in the rigging on my Dixon I took the flute head off and put the whistle head on and that was that. It was just dumb luck that I decided to try and fix all the cracks in an old bamboo flute I`ve had for years and what do ya know, I could play a tune. Heck I could make music.
I don`t expect to ever be a flutist,(floutist) but I have always loved the sound and expression of a flute. And now thanks to a crommy old hunk of bamboo I think I have a chance to at least be able to think I might one day be a flute player. And if I find an easier flute to play that helps me make music then I will want it. I did order an Olwell (thanks Jessie)in hopes of an even better sound but I think it is way more important for a biggining flute player to have some since of hope. I put in 2 hours a day on the Dixon to no avale. I have always thought self abuse should be at least plesurable. So give me easy and when I can play and make music I will set the next chalange not the flute.
Just my humble opinion

Tom

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:00 am

Hi Guys thanks for your replies.

Tom - Dixon interchangable head's has a reputation of being less than good so I wasn't surprised when you commented that it was hard to get a tone out of. I can't comment more than that for never having played any of Dixon's flutes. I'm sorry to hear about your hours of "self-abuse". But like I said, I'm not saying that every difficult-to-play flute is a good flute.

I understand that beginners especially need results to feel motivated to keep practicing, and they *will* get these results and more, working with a good flute that is capable of stimulating/challenging the learner far enough. From the amount of people lauding the virtues of the "easy" flute, it sounds like many don't believe this. I mean, flute playing is not easy but its not that impossible/difficult (I know some people get needlessly daunted by the task even before putting their hands at it).

Having the determination and insistence to press on when you get "bad days" is all a part of flute playing. Happens to everyone, and I'm sure even Matt Molloy, Seamus Egan, or whichever flute-playing idol the forum adores is not exempt from this either. When you get over these initial challenges, there is a whole world to explore, and gosh, its a really lovely, amazing and fun experience. Let me assure you that your "self-abuse" will yield highly pleasurable results!

But of course if one is not so serious and is simply dabbling in the world of flute-playing, disregard everything I said. All these comments I'm making might only be valid for the serious flute beginner. If making "music" is all one is after, then play the whistle. Instant gratification! Put your mouth on the mouthpiece, and exhale through your mouth. You get a note with a consistant, sustainable tone. (It makes you wonder why on Earth would anyone bother to work at getting a developed embouchure doesn't it?

)

A few people have pointed out the ease of play of Olwells. Frankly, it wasn't writing the first post with Olwells in mind but a few other brands of flutes that people who have had not much experience in flute playing keep on recommending. This post was made as a reaction to those recommendations, and what I feel about flutes that are praised because they are easy to play and give instant gratification to a beginner embouchure. (very much like Jessie's Eugene Lambe example) Like I said, these flutes have their place in this world, but I wouldn't recommend it to a serious beginner.

But even so, one would remember the episode not so long ago, where Loren got his cocus Olwell. One wouldn't have thought that he was describing an "easy playing" flute from the way he wrote. On the contrary, I had the impression that he actually needed to work hard at it (before the onset of the allergy). Stuart has also told me an interesting story about this beginner who was struggling with the lower notes of an Olwell. (it was told in the chat - now you know what you non-chatters are missing!) So I don't know how easy-playing flute beginners will find an Olwell to be, and to what extent can it be termed an "easy player".

Moreover easy and difficult are relative terms. Those experienced players who have played Wilkes and other flutes that are labelled as "challenging" might find the Olwell relatively more forgiving to play.

But what the hey, instruments shouldn't hinder the music! I'll remember to tell Jean Michel Veillon that he's really silly for playing a Wilkes when I get the good fortune to meet him. I mean, its such an unforgiving flute that its hard even to get a strong tone out of right? Can you imagine all the hinderance its causing him? Oh don't forget Kevin Crawford and his Grinter, Conal O'Grada and his Hamilton! Dang what about all the players of original Rudalls?! I'm sure its just their pride thats keeping them with such unforgiving, overated flutes!

Can you imagine, I'll be saving all the otherwise great flute players from a lifetime of hinderance and underachievement!

[ This Message was edited by: Eldarion on 2003-01-05 07:29 ]

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:37 am

I'm primarily a Boehm system player. What I've discovered is that overly easy to play flutes often limit what you can do to mold and shape the sound. Often a flute that "almost plays itself" will dictate the sound quality somewhat. I prefer a flute that allows me to shape the sound. The type of flute that "plays itself" may not give the player that option.

Sometimes you have to search for the balance between playability and shapability that works best for you.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:18 am

The Copley plays easily--but I'm
told it has considerable
depth and sensitivity.
So maybe there are easy playing
flutes that are very good
flutes indeed, and easy
playing flutes that are
much less good.

As to an easy playing flute
impeding the development
of embouchure, playing
any flute seems to be
hard enough! Also
one can challenge oneself
quite nicely on an easy
playing flute, e.g. playing
overtones... Best

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:26 am

The missing element to this thread is that what one finds easy is relative. Beginners may find one flute easier over another, but still not be achieving the final "sound" most of us are after. That will take time. What they are achieving - no small thing - is some tone and volume that they might not be able to get in a "harder" flute.
Once you've been playing awhile, though, the ability to make the flute sound is no longer the goal, but to make it play well. Some of the so-called easier flutes to play are not flutes you'll grow into. Some are, and the player will suddenly find a new dimension to their playing. Simultaneously, the "harder" flutes generally aren't hard to play any longer.
There's a difference between an instrument that is difficult, and therefore a stumbling block to learning, and an instrument that takes more skill to play. If a player develops a good embouchure and can fill a flute well, some of the so-called harder flutes become the better flutes for them to play, because they can push it as hard as they want. The easier flutes need to be played, well, easier, so their threshold is lower. Good and bad, then, isn't really in play, but the player's style and focus is -- some people like to play delicately, other to push to the wall. Beginners don't have that choice at first, but if they end up as the latter type (and there are many types in-between), they will find they've outgrown their "easy" flute. Others never will, and will never be comfortable with flutes that are more demanding. A well-made flute in either category is still a well-made flute, but this is why you will have major disagreements even among top players as to what flutes they prefer.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:24 am

I have said it before- my argument would be that some of the 'high-end' flute makers are cutting embouchures that seem to be designed to be too flattering to the beginner or improver( strange term- hopefully we are all improvers all the time- I mean those with the less well trained mouth positions) at the cost of the overall quality and character of tone achievable from their instruments.

That's fine for a 100 quid 'practice' model to aid improvement (to a point), but is it desirable for a 'quality' instrument that may now cost as much as a down payment on a house ?

There is a maturity of tone and inner tonality that can be achieved from a well cut/ balanced embouchure on a flute. It takes time ,lots of playing and usually focused practice. It's not 'easy' (i.e. you probably won't do it from scratch no matter what you spend....but it's not 'hard' either -it simply takes time and focused practice).

Well trained mouth positions may draw intresting tonality out of any half decent embouchure- but IMO a more accomplished level of blowing/mouth use is best facilitated by those makers who understand the subtle trade-offs involved in cutting an embochure on a flute and how this effects the overall sound,tone and playability.

Just a few thoughts.

Regards all, Harry.

[ This Message was edited by: Harry on 2003-01-06 11:50 ]

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:37 am

On 2003-01-05 07:00, Eldarion wrote:
I'll remember to tell Jean Michel Veillon that he's really silly for playing a Wilkes when I get the good fortune to meet him. I mean, its such an unforgiving flute that its hard even to get a strong tone out of right? Can you imagine all the hinderance its causing him? Oh don't forget Kevin Crawford and his Grinter, Conal O'Grada and his Hamilton! Dang what about all the players of original Rudalls?! I'm sure its just their pride thats keeping them with such unforgiving, overated flutes!...Can you imagine, I'll be saving all the otherwise great flute players from a lifetime of hinderance and underachievement!

Wow, you should win an award for stretching what I said so completely. First off, these people you mentioned are not beginners. Secondly, I made a point of mentioning how wonderful a Wilkes flute can sound in the right hands (and lips). Third, I said nothing about Grinters or Hamiltons. Geez.

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2003-01-05 11:17 ]

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:06 am

Well, my experience was as follows:

Started on some cheap flutes, they were hard to play and didn't sound good. Very frustrating and not very inspiring. But I kept at it, a little at a time.

Then I got a "Famous Maker" Flute that looked and sounded great, but it was Extremely difficult for me to play - some days I could get a wonderous tone out of it for a little while and then nothing at all, sometimes for days! I worked at it for a few months, but could get no consistency and so became quite discouraged, and eventually stopped practicing and went back to whistles.

A little further down the road Jessie told me about the Copley Flute she had just gotten, she told me how great it sounded and how easily it played, so I ordered one. When it arrived, I was quite surprised that in addition to looking great and being well made, the flute played very easily, and could go from very pure to quite reedy and hardedged sounding, all with good dynamic range. At this point I became very inspired, and thus motivated to practice, and so my playing and embouchure started to improve significantly. I was thrilled!

Finally, when my Olwell was ready, I had to sell the Copley - I hated to do it, but it was the only way to pay for the Olwell. When the Olwell arrived, I found it much more difficult to play, due to being a Pratten style flute, however the sound and beauty of the flute were staggering, and I had reached a point, thanks to the Copley, where I had become commited to flute playing and practice, so after about a month or 6 weeks of 1-2 hours a day of practice on the Olwell, it became easy to play as I refined my embouchure and improved my breathing efficiency.

Now, the Cocus Allergy put a stop to the long practice sessions shortly after, however I seem to have found a fairly good solution, and now playing the Olwell is so easy I can't imagine how it was ever difficult!

My point here is that without a really good sounding, easy playing flute like the Copley, I probably would have given up on the flute, which would have been a terrible shame. True, the Copley was so easy to play that it didn't fully prepare my embouchure for the Olwell Pratten, however without the practice I got on the Copley, I wouldn't have had the fortitude to put my headdown and persist with the Olwell.

So, for me at least, an easy playing flute that sounded good (the Copley) was an essential part of my progress, without it, I would have quit the flute altogether.

Therfore, I disagree with you Eldarion. But that's just my experience....

Loren
P.S. Thanks again Jessie, your recommendation of the Copley kept me from putting the flute down for good

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:07 am

P.P.S. And thanks to both Dave Copley and Pat Olwell for making such incredible instruments!!!