Does anybody ever start with a Practice Set...........

[Barney_Stone]

.........and then realise it'd been better to wait and save up for a half-set in the first place?

See, I've got a bit of a dilemma. I'd really love to get into bellows-blown piping, as an addition to my low whistling. I've never played pipes before, but I know I'd put 100% effort into learning (played guitar, keyboards for nigh on 30 years).

Problem is, I can't afford a half set at present. Now I know I could get a variety of Smallpipes for half the cost of Uilleanns. However, I just don't like the sound of any of then quite as much (apologies SSP/NSP players ) . I discussed this with a Northumbrian piper and he advised me to get Uilleanns. I also play Irish trad with other people in sessions.

Now I've got friends who play fiddle and guitar with me, so I was wondering if it would be worth me getting a practice-set ASAP, start learning the things (long process, I realise) and then get and play, with the others providing for the lack of drones. In fact I've heard a couple of Youtube clips of tunes played without the drones turned on and I've still thought they sounded full and rich. I believe that's down to the complexity of the unique Uilleann sound (and obviously playing ability!).

Any advice would be welcome.

BS.

[PJ]

Firstly, don't call them "Uilleanns". That's just an invitation for people to throw stuff at you.

Most people start with a practice set but some start on a half set. I had a practice set for 7 years before moving onto a half set. If you do start with a half set, you'll probably not use the drones for at least the first year. You'll spend the first month or so, just getting a steady note from the chanter, controlling bag pressure, coordinating bellows pumping, driving the neighbours mad, etc. When you finally squeeze out a few tunes, you'll be red faced from the effort and drones (which double the air being pumped through the set) will only add to your woes.

My advice, and I'm sure there are many who'll disagree, is get yourself the best practice set you can affoard and get busy learning to play the chanter. When you've got the basics down, then start thinking about drones.

[KevinCorkery]

Ditto, You'll have enough on your plate with just the chanter, give yourself a few years on just the practice set and you won't be overwhelmed. I waited 3 years and found the addition of drones took alot of air out of the bag. I'm glad I waited.
Best of luck!

[Elmek]

Yes they do - I did and then ordered the drones when I collected the practice set as there is inevitably a wait

Where are you in the UK

John

[Barney_Stone]

Firstly, don't call them "Uilleanns". That's just an invitation for people to throw stuff at you.

.....what, like a good secondhand chanter?

Cheers, bud......UPs should be okay, yeah?

Elmek, I'm in the north east of Staffordshire.

Thanks for everyone's replies.

BS.

[oliver]

One thing I'd like to add : there's always the risk to use the drones to mask certain faults when playing the chanter ; your ears have something else to focus on and you lose concentration on what should be, and is, the most important : that is good and precise chanter playing. The drones may be some kind of a trap, as it sounds straight away quite rewarding for a beginner... On the other hand, it may improve your bellows technique a lot faster as you need normal air pressure on the bag. Some players find it hard to move on to a half set because of the extra air needed. So it's really up to and your financial possibilities. At any rate, I think a practice set is quite enough for at least the first year.

[Doc Jones]

Hi Barney,

I'd recommend, firstly, that you follow the advice of those who actually play the pipes well and have any idea what they're talking about...for example, anyone but me.

That said, I started with a half set. I personally found the sound of the drones motivating to practice (heaven knows my chanter playing wasn't particularly motivational ).

However, one either has the dough or one hasn't. If one hasn't the dough, one would certainly benefit from getting a practice set and upgrading later.

Getting a practice set first is the responsible, intelligent, serious route and will pave the way to piping excellance in the future. Everyone I know that is a serious piper says so.

I'm a happy hack and will never be anything more on the UP. "Responsible, intelligent and serious" rarely enter into my musical decisions. I enjoy the heck out of making noise with my pipes. I find I can make more noise with drones.

Also, if you're particularly disciplined , you could get the half set and leave the drones switched off and behave yourself until you've mastered the chanter. That way you could get used to having the drones in the picture mechanically without diluting your chanter efforts. Again, you'd have to have the dough and the availability of a good half set. In the absence of either it's a moot point.

Doc

[big wooley]

I'm a happy hack and will never be anything more on the UP. "Responsible, intelligent and serious" rarely enter into my musical decisions. I enjoy the heck out of making noise with my pipes. I find I can make more noise with drones.


Doc

Thanks for that declaration Doc.
It makes other hacks like me feel much better.
I switched on the drones at about 8 months, the quality of my sound hasn't increased but the noise level and the fun certainly has.
If this is for personal enjoyment, then do what you enjoy.

[Key_of_D]

Ah drones. The bread and butter of any bagpipe. I can't really think of any pros for a beginner with a half-set, even if you do have the money. If you don't, then it's even worse. I'd like to add that drones do take more air to play while playing the chanter, but how much so depends on the reeds... leaks aside of course. The first set of reeds I made for my drones nearly (if not) tripled the amount of air needed to keep chanter and drones going. A friend later showed me how to make drone reeds take less air, and those reeds less then doubled the amount of air to keep everything going. Aside from all that, drones are just another can of worms to worry about, and fuss with. And you aren't gonna be playing drones with the chanter the very first day, aside from learning bag and bellows technique and all the fingerings etc, playing with drones takes some getting used to, which doesn't happen over-night. A beginner will have more then enough to work with on the just the practice set. As others have said, and I'll reiterate, drones won't really do you a whole lot of good until you have a good few tunes under your belt anyways, so what's the rush. No use if you can't use them.

Perhaps, the only exception to my rule here is, if you find a screamin' good deal on a QUALITY half/three-quarter/fullset, then snatch it up of course. Money saved is just that, and it doesn't get any better then that.

Just my 2 cents, but as always, each to their own.

Cheers,

[reedbiter]

Everyone here has had EXTREMELY valid and good advice.

However, I'm going to be the one dissenter in the group and offer an alternative perspective. PERSONALLY I believe that while there are difficulties and hurdles to overcome, that there are also great benefits to be had by starting with a half set.

Keeping in mind that whats already been said is quite valid. I don't believe it's the "whole picture". These are my observations from being a beginner and helping a number of beginners. So, here is my opinion (and it's just my opinion so feel free to call me wrong) and thoughts to add to the decision making tree.

The benefits to starting with a half set are as follows:

1. Learning on a practice set is good. But the change from practice set to half set can be VERY drastic for some. Frankly, when drones are added, it becomes an entirely different instrument which requires different posture, grip, etc... learning the right ergonomic and "right" way to hold (EMBRACE is a better word) a set of pipes is VERY important to the beginner.
Also, when starting to use the drones at this point, the player will/can encounter all new problems and compensation issues in terms of pressure..I mean come on, it's like you just poked three holes in your bag.
So, there is a lot of unlearning, adjustment and relearning that takes place.

2. When I first began playing the pipes (I started on NSP's, my teacher had me JUST play the drones for a few days. I was lucky to live with the fellow and he taught dozens of private and group lessons on the pipes. My job was to simply play the drones and follow along with the music, and slowly start on the chanter. Personally I thought it was the ideal first step. I've always found that for the beginner, JUST playing the drones for maybe 5 minutes a day, then 10 then 20 etc. Is a PERFECT way to...

a. build up the necessary muscle strength and COORDINATION

b. ingrain the whole bag/bellows balancing act firmly in the
mind..making it completely second nature so that one does not
constantly need to be THINKING about it. Obviously we all learn this
so that it becomes like breathing...

c. the SOUND of the drones (if the reeds are adjusted right and don't
waver with increased pressure!) allows one to EASILY judge whether
or not one has a consistent and controlled pressure. I've seen many
examples of beginners (on practice sets) who sort of stutter or play
jerkily when they play. Sort of like the beginner driver learning with
a manual transmission.

*** A special note from my wife and colleagues: My wife is a piano, violin, clarinet, guitar, whistle and cello (her main instrument) teacher. She has taught for over 10 years. She and her associates cannot stress ENOUGH the need to SLOWLY begin (on any new instrument) to build dexterity and strength in heretofore unused or neglected muscles and develop the necessary fine motor (as well as large muscle) skills. They've seen far too much muscle strain and injury occur otherwise. The reality IS that playing any instrument is a physical workout and the pipes are quite strenuous. Besides the obvious need to avoid injury, the resulting pain can make it more difficult to play, can cause many to develop bad habits and may make others quit prematurely thinking they don't have the physical requirements.

SO START SLOW. Think "baby steps"..ya gotta crawl before you can run.

3. Finally there is a much less "practical" reason... psychology! Drones are just plain COOL. A practice set has always seemed...well...LAME to me. I wanted the sound of the drones!! It's so PRIMAL and just sort of grabs you "there!". I mean, come on...we've all (I think) experienced that wonderful moment (either through listening or playing) when the drones suddenly come on out of nowhere and the difference is remarkable and stirring. And I think that playing a half set is...well...more motivating.

Keeping in mind that they don't NEED to be USED right away or every time you play. So it's still quite easy to "focus" on just chanter work. At least with a half set you have the choice.

Now to play my own devil's advocate and take the other position...

OF COURSE this is rendered entirely a MOOT point and completely irrelevant if money is the deciding factor. Also, length of the waiting time can be an issue. Drones can be very expensive and usually double the cost. So from an economical standpoint the practice set makes the most sense. And it gets one playing sooner. There's less initial outlay of cash, less risk if one decides that it's just not their cup of tea etc.

OK OK OK I realize that was MUCH more than 5 cents worth of ideas...but I couldn't help it, so please forgive me.

[Barney_Stone]

Lots of good points being made and I can see the merit in all the various points of view.

However, for me its a no-brainer. My price range is £1,000-£1,200 which to my mind puts me in the practice-set range. There are makers in the U.K. doing these for £600-£800, some with a drone included. I'd therefore appreciate as many first-hand opinions as possible on the following:

1) Is it important to buy from a maker who's relatively local, especially if you're a newbie like me, learning in relative isolation (I'm based in the North Midlands of England)?

2) Would anyone care to recommend any makers to me, based on my location and the fact that I may need advice/back-up off them, should any issues arise? Probably best to PM me, as I don't want the thread to turn into a good vs crap of English pipe-makers.

Thanks for your help.



BS.

[Key_of_D]

NPU has a list of pipe makers online. How current their contacting information is beyond me, I just know about the resource is all. I assume that it's current. Anyways, that can be found here.

[Key_of_D]

I realize that was MUCH more than 5 cents worth of ideas

You mean 2 cents. Perhaps there's a tax I didn't know about.

[Doc Jones]

I realize that was MUCH more than 5 cents worth of ideas

You mean 2 cents. Perhaps there's a tax I didn't know about.

The cent anin't what it used to be.

Excellent post BTW David.

Doc

[Brazenkane]

100% START NOW and start w.a practice set.

There is NO shame in it, and as Doc says, it's the responsible way to go about it.

Most of all the big names started this way, and it seems to have served them quite well, eh?