eBay bans all ivory sales

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:43 pm

WASHINGTON (AFP) – EBay announced a ban on all ivory sales as a conservation group released a report on Tuesday accusing the Internet auction house of contributing to the trade in endangered wildlife products.

Just hours before the release of the report by the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW), eBay said that it would institute a global ban on the sale of elephant ivory products by January 1, 2009.

EBay's announcement, made by its in-house blogger Richard Brewer-Hay, said the move followed consultations with the IFAW, the World Wildlife Fund, Humane Society of the United States and the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

Ebay banned cross-border sales of ivory last year.

"However, given the complexities of the global ivory trade, and the distinct and unique characteristics of the eBay Marketplace, the sale of any ivory on our site continued to be a concern within the company," Brewer-Hay wrote.

"So, to protect our buyers and sellers, as well as animals in danger of extinction, eBay has decided to institute a global ban on the sale of all types of ivory," he added.

Here is ther link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081021/sc ... ompanyebay

sjcavy · Post by **sjcavy** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:02 pm

all I have to say is that I extremely dislike (borderline hate) the HSUS, and the world wildlife fund, and now the international fund for animal welfare. The US fish and wildlife service isn't high up on my list either. Oh, I almost forgot....I hate PETA too.

I am never going to use ebay again. seriously.

Sean

(Ps. sorry if this irritates anyone, and if it causes problems then I would appreciate if the mods would kindly delete my post.)

Ugi · Post by **Ugi** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:17 pm

Well, I think this is a very good decision of Ebay!

I think its immoral and quite condemnable if our hobbies (or the material used for our hobbies) give damage or deatch to animals, fellow beings.
And we simply do not have the right to do this! In my opinion, we don't have the right to kill and eat animals either but thats not asked in that topic.

Well, I welcome that decision of Ebay and I'm quite happy that a enterprise of that seize supports the animals.

amckay · Post by **amckay** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:19 pm

It is disappointing to see yet another US institution implement a heavy handed, all encompassing strategy to deal with an issue without considering the details or intricacies of the issue. I can think of a few examples where such strategies were implemented, only to be toned back after a lot of complaining from the public and lobby groups. Additionally, people will simply find alternative methods to buy and sell ivory products - ebay is simply moving the problem out of their back yard into someone elses and taking a hit financially by doing so. Basically everyone loses, including the animal welfare bodies who will lose any visibility of ivory sales they may have had when the transactions were over ebay.
I'm sure everyone would agree that poaching animals into extinction to supply a market need is a bad thing, but these animal protection groups should have a good think about whether the strategies they want implemented will achieve their goals, and what other impacts and consiquences are likely to arise from their strategies.
Disappointed.

mukade · Post by **mukade** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:36 pm

Boxwood is the new ivory.

Mukade

Elmek · Post by **Elmek** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:13 am

All Ivory ? Would have thought mammoth will be OK until they unfreeze and resusitate enough to make a breeding herd.
This would be an interesting scenario for the conservasionists as if the animal was already well and truly extinct would harvesting tusks, hide amd meat from them acually be an issue

Wonder how many of the 'must not use animal products on pipes' brigade are happy to use rainforest trees for their pipes, have leather bags, metals whose refining creates toxic residue or plastics
As usual it is dual standards and IMHO boxwwod looks crap and is no substitute for ivory. Horn can be very attrative and takes a far better finish. Have seen some very good imitations on pipes with a similar grain pattan to ivory but only a few makers eg Rogge seem to use them
My own set does not have ivory mounts.
John

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:36 am

Elmek wrote:All Ivory ? Would have thought mammoth will be OK until they unfreeze and resusitate enough to make a breeding herd.

billh · Post by **billh** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:02 am

Cross-border ivory sales have been prohibited by eBay for some time. (not sure about enforcement, however...)

Given the ways in which the "no cross border" policy can be subverted, however, this may indeed plug a loophole.

I think the eBay policy says "elephant ivory", so mammoth should be unaffected - as will ivory-bearing products such as pipes which are over 100 years old and thus are CITES-exempt (if you read the statement in full).

As far as I can see, the only effect this should have on "legit" buyers and sellers is to restrict sales of 20th century ivory-bearing instruments within a country. Face it, if you have ivory mounted pipes for "local" sale, eBay isprobably a silly way to sell (or buy!) them...

Bill

sjcavy · Post by **sjcavy** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:54 am

I don't even mind about the ivory, I somewhat understand their position. I just do not like the fact that ebay did not consult anyone other than an animal rights organization with a history of radical ideas. Just not smart on their part.
Also, are ivory pipes really that common? I have only ever seen pictures of one set of uilleann pipes with ivory on them. The only other sets I have seen are GHB's.

CHasR · Post by **CHasR** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:09 am

amckay wrote:It is disappointing to see yet another US institution implement a heavy handed, all encompassing strategy to deal with an issue without considering the details or intricacies of the issue. I can think of a few examples where such strategies were implemented, only to be toned back after a lot of complaining from the public and lobby groups. Additionally, people will simply find alternative methods to buy and sell ivory products - ebay is simply moving the problem out of their back yard into someone elses and taking a hit financially by doing so. Basically everyone loses, including the animal welfare bodies who will lose any visibility of ivory sales they may have had when the transactions were over ebay.
I'm sure everyone would agree that poaching animals into extinction to supply a market need is a bad thing, but these animal protection groups should have a good think about whether the strategies they want implemented will achieve their goals, and what other impacts and consiquences are likely to arise from their strategies.
Disappointed.

Wow! I actually agree with an Austrailian!

Proper management of the ivory trade could have been good for Africa.
sales of 'new', 'unworked' ivory could have been restricted,
but I see no need to punish everyone with existing ivory artifacts.

Elmek · Post by **Elmek** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:34 am

From Ebay - might be able to get some small mounts from it
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Large-African-Con ... 286.c0.m14

70 years old which is probably a guess-timate. Probably not old enough for a CITES permit

SJCavy wrote

Also, are ivory pipes really that common?

Yes. I know several makers who use and have stocks of pre-ban ivory but for obvious reasons will not mention them by name because the 'hate brigade' may by watching.

One I know keeps a check on Antique shops for carved tusks to rework.
Personally I cannot see a problem with having real ivory from reworked antique tusks as I do not travel abroad with my pipes however I can see dificulties if I did and was caught by Customs. My problem is I can only afford to have imitation ivory. Perhaps I should visit the zoo with a bag of buns and a hacksaw

John

mcurtiss · Post by **mcurtiss** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:50 am

what about antique ivory items that predate CITES? If there's no exception for stuff like that, it's a bit heavy-handed in my book.

KevinCorkery · Post by **KevinCorkery** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:08 am

Silly -astards! I'm sure this will cure all the poaching.

This is the guy that I have been using. Joe can cut whatever you need.

You have to pay a premium for the freshly killed and smuggled stuff though. I love being politically incorrect!

http://www.cuecomponents.com/elivco.html

MarcusR · Post by **MarcusR** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:42 am

KevinCorkery wrote:You have to pay a premium for the freshly killed and smuggled stuff though. I love being politically incorrect!

I think it's called "ignorance" ... so you love being ignorant

/M

djimbo · Post by **djimbo** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:28 pm

I think it's called "ignorance"

Puts me in mind of a conversation with a very well known pipe-maker, asking me If I wanted Ivory mounts.. erm no thanks (with slightly shocked expression)..
His reply.. It's OK those elephants are already dead.