Question about single rows please help...

Killain · Post by **Killain** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:31 pm

As of recentley I have really been intrested in finding a single row to play Irish music with. I do play piano accordion very well, but I would love to have the sound of a single row opposed to the piano accordion...

My problem though is price of all of the single row D's I see tend to be beyond my budget. That said what is the cheapest single row D avalible new that is worth a persons money?

Also sorry for my lack of musical understanding on this next question, but I never learned to read music or had any formal training I play strictly by ear and feel. So that said can Irish music be played on a C accordion like the honher cajun type models or does it sound to funny... I don't play with other insturments so that is not a concern to me, as far as tuning goes. I am just looking for a single row for playing Irish tunes whats my best bet?

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:04 pm

I'd say your best bet would be to keep checking on ebay for a good used Louisiana made box. You could also check here...

http://pub21.bravenet.com/forum/1722942123/

I would stay away from any Chinese made boxes, which would include the new Hohners, they are actually painful to play. If you cannot afford a second hand box from a good maker take a look at the Gabbanelli Cajun King, they aren't the best, but are a heck of a lot better than a Hohner.
You could technically learn on any key for a one row, just keep in mind if you go with a key other than D it'd be tough to play at a session.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Is there a particular reason you want a limited single row melodeon, and not a double row B/C or C#/D box that gives you the full range of Irish tunes? Just curious.

Killain · Post by **Killain** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:05 pm

_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago

Thanks for you info I appreciate it, I will keep a eye out for something. I know it is only a matter of time till I find something that is up to standard in my budget. Might just have to part with one of my other less used insturments and to get a good box though.

Mtguru

As for wanting the single row, I am not sure if it is subliminal or what.. but watching the old clips of traditional players and hearing tunes on a single row there just seems to be something unique to the rythm and sound they produce.

So that being said if I did venture into playing locally what key would be best to play in a session with? And can you confirm then a cajun accordion will sound ok with Irish music? And last but not least it is not out of the question to get a two row and I have played on dancemasters before, but for some reason minus the limited range of a single row they represent a unique sound and characteristic to my liking. I guess I just need to make sure I am certain I will not regret it if I buy a single row.

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:21 pm

A "Cajun Accordion" is a single row melodeon, same as what John Kimmel used, it's been coined Cajun accordion simply because in present times that is where you see it used most often. In regards to what key, you need a D to play at a session. In regards to what system is best, I play both Cajun and Irish music, and a bit of Quebecois for that matter. For Irish I use a BC box, for Cajun and Quebecois I stick with 1 row instruments in various keys. If you want the interesting sound of a single row with more possibilities get a DC# or C#D box. Just start to listen to a whole bunch of accordion players you like, find out an exact style you would like to learn, and go with that layout. For Irish music I found the BC box had a certain swing to it, so I chose that layout.

Don Roberts · Post by **Don Roberts** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:55 am

Killian, I don't think you could go wrong with a dancemaster in C#/D.
The c#/d can be played up and down the D row as though it were a meloeon or can be utilized as a chromatic by incorporating the c# row.
I have been learning the c#/d for about six months and have used two different boxes during that time. The first was a Weltmeister 510. It was a good box, light weight, not a bad sound. It has three middle reeds and with a good tuning could be made into a very nice irish sound.
You should check out Buttonbox.com, they have a Weltmeister 511, c#/d in walnut for $995.00. on special purchase sale. Regular price is 1750.00
The box has big treble buttons, three reeds, and a register.
If I didn't have a box already on order I would buy this one.
Contact me by PM if you want other tidbits of info
Good Luck

StevieJ · Post by **StevieJ** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:23 am

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago wrote:If you want the interesting sound of a single row with more possibilities get a DC# or C#D box.

I wouldn't agree with this comparison. One-rows are almost a different instrument. For one thing, the classic one-row has four voices tuned LMMH (bassoon - clarinet - clarinet - piccolo), giving a very distinctive sound. Plus you have the unique growly sound (and extremely limited harmonic possibilities) of the the one-row basses.

You could of course order a two-row box with this combination of voices (a friend of mine has a Saltarelle Shamrock set up that way) but the price will be high - around $3K at least.

But aside from that, they are still different instruments in terms of how they are played. The one row balances lightly on your knee and good players use the right hand as well as the left to obtain rhythmic effects that cannot be got with a two-row.

Maybe a bit more listening is in order. Might I recommend some of the top Québécois players, or for Irish, Johnny Connolly? The latter was an accomplished B/C player who went back to the one-row of his childhood precisely because of its unique qualities.

For free samples, go to http://cdbaby.com/cd/damienc

All the samples are played on a B/C except for track 4 (Fitzmaurice's polka), which is played on a four-voice one-row. It ain't the same animal at all.

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:09 am

By similar sound, I am referring to the rhythm of the box, the boxes with a D row show share a similar push/pull rhythm to a single row, at least the way some people play it. In regards to a good CD to get for single row playing, this one is fantastic....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSm3BZIZCrQ

If you order that CD also ask Andre about his personal album, it is equally as nice. If you don't have them already, you must get the John Kimmel recording, you can it them here....

http://www.savoymusiccenter.com/cajuncds.html

rh · Post by rh » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:56 am

http://iol.ie/~ronolan/melodeon.html

There are a lot of great two row players who have some tracks recorded on one-row, though i can't think of too many whole ITM albums played on just one-row. In addition to Johnny C, who sort of specializes in it, Micheál Darby O Fatharta did a fine cd with just a one-row, but i don't think it's available anymore. John O'Halloran has a fun one, "But Why, Johnny?", but i think he may have some two-row on there as well. Brendan Begley, Paul Brock, Dermot Byrne, Benny McCarthy, PJ Hernon and Bobby Gardiner have recorded on one-row (i'm sure there are others i haven't heard); all are well worth listening to.

Here's Jackie Daly with Frankie Gavin and Alec Finn; the four-voice really fills out the sound.

Here's Brendan Begley solo on his little Castagnari.

Bobby Gardiner solo on the venerable Hohner. Here's one of him with Ringo.

StevieJ · Post by **StevieJ** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:26 am

Since OGDC mentioned André Bouchard (btw last I heard the CD "Dans tous les cantons" was out of print):

André has attempted to expand the possibilities of the classic one-row without losing either the sound or the compact format with a box of his own design

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWKObgmI7gU

The box has four extra buttons but only two extra pallets, giving four notes: c-natural, d#, and g# in low and high octaves. Good value for money but not cheap - about Cdn $2200 I believe.

Within a couple of weeks another Québécois musician is set to launch another, and more versatile, take on the same idea, an accordion with 5 extra buttons (and 5 extra pallets) and 10 extra notes squeezed into the same box. I'll keep you posted.

I keep trying to like the one-row sound myself - even bought a cheapie (second-hand Harmona, via the internet. Sorry, have already sold it on...) a while ago to make a stab at learning the style all the box players in my neck of the woods are so good at - but soon abandoned the idea. Life is too short, and anyway I can't even get through a Johnny Connolly album at one listening.

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:01 am

Actually, I am expecting a box from Andre by the end of this month. I ordered in quite a while back and the suspense has been killing me. I think for what I am doing it could work out. I'd be interested in hearing more about this other box you speak of, i'm very fond of extra buttons, heck even my BC box is a 2.5 row.

rh · Post by rh » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:57 pm

just DL'd a nice album from Paul Brock and Enda Scahill, Humdinger. It's Paul Brock on just single-row melodeons (Castagnari) in D and C with Enda Scahill's tenor banjo and mandolin, with piano accompaniment (also Tommy Hayes on percussion). It's got a 78-era feel to it, lovely stuff.

If you don't like single-row or banjo or mandolin, then you'd probably want to avoid it.

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:27 am

Just bought a physical copy of the cd through amazon..... really looking forward to it, sounds like some great stuff.