Rare ca. 1830 Boehm simple system 9 key on ebay

[daveogden]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Theobald-B ... 0277753254

The seller says there are only about 10 of these in existence. It's a one piece body, a very early 8 key made this way. This flute must pre-date Boehm's research into flute acoustics and key mechanisms. It has a long Bb key on an axel for the right hand middle finger (not original?) otherwise all keys are mounted in blocks. No tuning slide. Very interesting!

[Cubitt]

Am I wrong in thinking that Boehm never made simple-system flutes? He did not make flutes for a living, I don't think, and was a metal smith, so wood would not have been his medium. I have his book, but it's been a long time since I've read it. I just don't recall that he made anything other than the orchestral flute as we know it today.

[jemtheflute]

From Boehm's Treatise:

"In the years between (1812) and 1817 .......I made many flutes, for myself and others, according to the best models of the time and also with many original improvements" ........ after 1818 "for some years I had flutes made according to my designs by other makers...."

"In October 1828 I ..... began to construct various machines and appliances for making with more facility and accuracy a better key mechanism than had previously been in use. Among these devices was one for screwing the metal posts into the wood accurately in the line of the radius of the bore........ By the end of the year the first flute was finished..... In the year 1831 I played in Paris and London upon such a flute of the ordinary system which had been made in my workshop in Munich.......

There is also a figure (3) depicting said flute (a wooden 8-key with extra Bb touch, pillar mounted keys, tuning slide, one-piece body and small tone-holes) and Miller (who wrote the translation) comments that he received a specimen of a similar flute which is shown in fig 5 and can presumably be seen in the DCM collection..... Of course, as his various systems of keys and bore designs followed, Boehm never ceased to provide wholly or partially wooden flutes (whenever he was engaged in actual manufacture - which he was not continuously) - again, see the DCM - and his licensees in London and Paris did likewise - presumably according to customer demand, though Boehm himself expressed his ultimate preference for an all-metal flute.

I hope that helps.

[Cubitt]

From Boehm's Treatise:

"In the years between (1812) and 1817 .......I made many flutes, for myself and others, according to the best models of the time and also with many original improvements" ........ after 1818 "for some years I had flutes made according to my designs by other makers...."

"In October 1828 I ..... began to construct various machines and appliances for making with more facility and accuracy a better key mechanism than had previously been in use. Among these devices was one for screwing the metal posts into the woodaccurately in the line of the radius of the bore........ By the end of the year the first flute was finished..... In the year 1831 I played in Paris and London upon such a flute of the ordinary system which had been made in my workshop in Munich.......

There is also a figure (3) depicting said flute and Miller (who wrote the translation) comments that he received a specimen of a similar flute which is shown in fig 5 and can presumably be seen in the DCM collection..... Of course, as his various systems of keys and bore designs followed, Boehm never ceased to provide wholly or partially wooden flutes (whenever he was engaged in actual manufacture - which he was not continuously) - again, see the DCM - and his licensees in London and Paris did likewise - presumably according to customer demand, though Boehm himself expressed his ultimate preference for an all-metal flute.

I hope that helps.

Yes, it does. And my sincere thanks.

[weedie]

Wow.....one of the only ten left in the world ...and made in 1830..
I'm very interested to see what the final selling price will be....
I'm guessing......Aussie $8,000....any one else care to speculate ??

[Irish Marine]

The selling price is going to be limited b/c the seller will not ship it. Available for pickup only in Germany

[RudallRose]

If you have your own FedEx account they will do the p/u for you.

[Carey]

Good idea FedEx. But then there's the whole packaging thing. Better check with the seller to see if they are OK with a FedEx pick up. It could be they worry about damage in shipment. Or maybe they just want to have some tunes with the new owner.

[jemtheflute]

Now I've got time to follow up, here's a link to the early Boehm simple system in the DCM mentioned by Miller in his edition of Boehm's treatise - and if you use the DCM Maker search function for other Boehm, Boehm & Greve or Boehm & Mendler flutes, you'll find plenty of wooden ones in the various configurations.... 11 out of the 24 complete flutes in the collection plus two wooden B foot joints.

As to the value of the flute currently for sale, I should think it will chiefly be of interest as a collectable rather than a playable flute. Its rarity must make it quite desirable to serious collectors of historic flutes, which should push up its value, but I would doubt how much serious player interest there would be - the period instrument/historically informed performance player has no shortage of flutes of this era available and is more likely, perhaps, to chose either a good English flute, or a French or Viennese model according to the music they might be playing, rather than one of Boehm's for its own sake. It wouldn't hold much interest for an ITM player. All of which is to say that, unlike e.g. R&R originals, there is less likelihood of dual interest from both players and collectors to further inflate value. I have no idea what value the collecting world would place on it! It will be interesting to see how the auction progresses. I'd not be surprised to see a Japanese buyer - most of the interesting collectable flutes seem to go there these days.

[I.D.10-t]

Would getting it out of Germany be a problem with the Ivory?

[RudallRose]

Would getting it out of Germany be a problem with the Ivory?

if coming into the USA, the flute must have a declaration of antiquity, simply stated: "Antique Great Than 100 Years Old"

That will help get it through without much duty, even with the ivory declaration, which should state it is original to the instrument and its date.

I've balked at flutes with ivory fittings (the Brit word for "rings") since the lag time on customs clearance can be substantial.

Your receipt from eBay ought to ensure coverage under your homeowner's policy. Check to be sure first, but all my flutes are covered the moment I purchase them.

[Carey]

Your receipt from eBay ought to ensure coverage under your homeowner's policy. Check to be sure first, but all my flutes are covered the moment I purchase them.

I'm glad that came up. It reminds me to pass along something I learned a month or so ago.

Each person should check with their insurance agent regarding what's covered, and be sure to mention "antique" if that's what kind of price you'll be looking for.

I got a surprise recently. My father was an insurance agent for 25 years and I am insured by the same company. I thought I knew how the game was played, but we moved into a hurricane zone with some risk of storm surge flooding and there is no coverage available for antiques. Period. Elsewhere there is. I can't even buy a rider to cover an antique banjo or flute here. Maybe some other company like Lloyds or something.

[Jon C.]

Looking at the flute, you can see why Beohm got his clock cleaned by Nickolson at the fabled concert in England. That is the one where he was the following act and people started to leave, as his flute was so weak. That is when he got inspiration to build his keyed flute, to get the Nickolson sound.

[Terry McGee]

Certainly a nice thing to see. A few interesting points:

- Note the Long F and Short F share the same pad (Tromlitz did this too).

- Note the rectangular embouchure, reminding us that Boehm could "never do well on an oval hole" (his own words to Broadwood)

- The Bb trill key appears to be a later addition - it is post mounted where all the others were block mounted. Which is not to say that it's not a later addition by Boehm.

Terry

[jemtheflute]

Like buses, one sees none for ages, then.......

OK, it's a fully developed Boehm system from later in the C19th and it's a little battered, but still a cracking collector's flute:-
Boehm & Mendler flute on ebay