Seisiun etiquett

[Liney Bear]

Unfortunately that never works with clueless folk like this lot described here. If they perhaps do notice that things "sound funny", they never put two and two together to figure out why. And they never stop playing.

Ha! You do have a point sir. I think the "all the good players take a break" strategy is best in the long run. She sits there wondering why no one is playing along with her and gets the damnedest look on her face when we all blast off again after she gets up.

[Jose' Scotte' Este']

I think that it would be appropriate to grab a chair on the side, have a drink, listen and wait for an invite.

[joshD]

Hi there

Aaron Wrote

"We tend to be a little traditionalistic and avoid such and such instrument, counterpoint harmonies, genre of music etc."

Yer havin a laugh here right!

And to the possible scenario where I have to phone in advance to find out if my instrument of choice say `Mandolin` is acceptable or not, and if it's not, don't even bother turning up!

What scares me more however is the fact that these kinds of perceptions and ideas about the traditional music session might actually be shared by more than a few members here.... and more so the US members.

All that's needed now is for some C&F member here to recognise the commercial potential in publishing a nice wee session etiquette book
I'm sure there would be plenty of buyers here on the C&F forum.

My apologies for taking the rise somewhat from your post Aaron but I reckon sessions should endeavour to be `inclusive` not `exclusive`

Cheers
pkev

Pkev


Interesting tone you have decided to take on this one.

[Azalin]

and more so the US members.

Why "more so"?

Ah now, you know, sometimes it's just plain *fun* to do some america bashing!

[AaronMalcomb]

Yer havin a laugh here right!

Yes and no.

And to the possible scenario where I have to phone in advance to find out if my instrument of choice say `Mandolin` is acceptable or not, and if it's not, don't even bother turning up!

Are you having a laugh? You're reading too much into my comment. Anyways it was directed more at accompanists... unless you only play accompaniment on mandolin. It's a perfectly fine melody instrument. But too many guitars, bodhrans, spoons and shaky eggs obscure the melody. Without melody it's not worth the bother. And I'm not saying stay away, I'm just saying no shaky egg solos. There is a band I like that uses a shaky banana to great effect.

What scares me more however is the fact that these kinds of perceptions and ideas about the traditional music session might actually be shared by more than a few members here.... and more so the US members.

I think it may actually be a bigger problem in the US. Call me self-loathing but I think we are generally less well behaved in social settings and our high-value on individualism has created a fair bit of self-centered, navel gazing types who don't notice how disruptive their actions can be.

And because it's an adopted tradition for us we either stick closely to what we think the rules are or conversely pay no heed to etiquette at all. So when those two worlds clash, a little annoyance is normal.

My apologies for taking the rise somewhat from your post Aaron but I reckon sessions should endeavour to be `inclusive` not `exclusive`

Just to illustrate that we're not too serious I'll describe what happened at our last session. Some lout at the bar didn't know his limit and started hooting and hollering and then grabbed some spoons and started banging away loudly and offbeat. We didn't take him out back and kill him with his bicycle. We played a long. One player grabbed some spoons and started playing too. I took the bottom joint off of my delrin flute and started playing the pieces like claves. Meanwhile the mandolin player was jamming away. I wished I'd had my jaw harp with me. Anyways we had fun with it and the guy settled down for a while. But the mandolin did rev him up later.

[ChrisCracknell]

Just a thought, but gearing up to EFlat is probably not the technique of choice for freezing out a whistle player... (Think whistle prices vs flute prices...)

[Gabriel]

The type of whistle player we're talking about here probably hasn't got an Eb whistle...and probably doesn't know what that is, neither.

[Il Friscaletto]

Somebody here joked about publishing a session etiquette rule book, but it kind of sounds like some people here would actually want something like that.

While I think it's a good idea for people to practice general politeness, attentiveness and respectfulness, to lay down specific rules and criteria for attending a session is a bit bureaucratic.

I sometimes see people at the local session getting very uptight if things aren't perfect. I just think we need to remember that we aren't brain surgeons and peoples live don't depend on us.

If it truly is an open session, you will have to deal with the occasional goof ball. It's when the goof ball comes back that it becomes more of an issue.

[ChrisLaughlin]

There is a guide the session, The Field Guide to Irish Music Session, by Barry Foy, and it's both hilarious and spot on right... a wonderful book. Get it if you can find a copy: http://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-Irish ... 944&sr=8-1

[eskin]

I have to second the recommendation on Barry's book, its now available in reprint at:

http://www.frogchartpress.com/

Both hilarious and right to the point, answers such questions as:

"Why are you so nice to each other?"

"Why are you so mean to each other?"

"What are all these instruments, can I take out my autoharp?"

"I don't know the tune you're playing - may I strum along anyway?"

Illustrated by Rob Adams.

Unfortunately, in the situations being described by David and Aanvil, about all it would be good for is for throwing at the offending party.

As far as the comment about goofballs at open sessions, there are limits to what I'll tolerate at the sessions I run. If a player is destroying the evening for everyone else, they're going to asked nicely to lay back or if they give me an attitude that they are somehow entitled to play, I'll toss them in a heartbeat.

In David's case with the two players who sat in the leaders usual seats and then were sarcastic, they would have been out before the first tune.

It would have gone like this:

"Hi there, nice to meet you! Sorry, but those seats are reserved for the session leaders."
"(nastily) In our session we don't have assigned seats."
"That's fine, but this isn't your session, would you mind moving over here, those seats are for the session leaders"
"What is this, some sort fascist session, why does it matter where I sit?"
"Listen, I really don't think this is working out, I'm really sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to leave."
"I drove all the way here from the hotel downtown, I can stay if I want."
"No, you can't (summoning pub owner who is very supportive of the session)..."
"Gents, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to leave my pub..."
"(packing up and muttering obscenities) ... bunch of ##$#$&&holes..."
SLAM!

and then we have a lovely evening... (taken from actual experience)

[eskin]

I think that it would be appropriate to grab a chair on the side, have a drink, listen and wait for an invite.

Here's a scenario that I have encountered, though, and I am curious about what other folks think:

What if you eventually join in the session, and then find that there is no opportunity for you ever start a tune or contribute in any way to tune selection? I have been to a "session" a few times that seems to be run more like a community band than a session. One leader-type person calls out the tunes, and the order of the tunes, and everyone else just goes along with it. Most folks read the tunes out of a book that has been put together for the session, and almost all of the many guitar players read and play the same (read boring) chords out of the tune book. The session starts at 7pm and at 9 pm sharp, everyone packs up their instruments and goes home. IMO, this is not a super high-quality session, but I found the way it was run as somewhat unusual. Because of the lack of flexibility, my friend, who is a regular, and I sometimes "highjack" the session and play a few tunes that others may or may not know, at a somewhat slower pace than typical for this "session". Sometimes when are feeling really crazy, we keep playing past 9. When a session seems to be somewhat unusual with regards to its own etiquette (this session is advertised as open to all), is it appropriate to try to subtley, over time, influence the etiquette to something more typical elsewhere?

The answer is "No".

The better response is to go start your own session somewhere else and see out others of like mind. Would you visit someone's house party as a guest of a guest and just walk over and turn on the TV because you want to watch a game, then start messing with the lighting? Of course not. You always have the option of throwing your own party.

[Rob Sharer]

True session disasters require two things:

1) A provocation

2) An inadequate response

If you're pissed off, say something about it. See Eskin's post. Cheers,

Rob

[Guinness]

So to sum up, the primary methods for dealing with session crashers are:

1. Do nothing: grin and bear it.

2. Passive aggressive behavior:
- all play: in Eb / faster / slower / a different tune / or not at all
- just pack up and leave (and maybe vent on C&F)

3. Communicate: have a chat with the offender and set him straight.

4. Appeal to a higher authority: get the pub owner to intervene.

5. Vigilantism: start a brawl.

6. Preventive action: Ask the pub owner to post a sign that says participation is by invitation only.

Anything else?

In some public transit vehicles (Philadelphia SEPTA?), there's signage which says to not put one's feet on the seats. That should go without saying but apparently it's needed. Unless it's explicitly stated, there will always be differences in understanding of social conventions, particularly in a pluralistic context.

[Il Friscaletto]

The ideal that some people seem to be describing here sounds more like a band playing a gig. If you really want to keep outsiders from your session, maybe a house session is a good idea.

I think number 3 from Guiness' list is the best way to deal with "offending" behavior...

[RudallRose]

i have been amused at several of the responses.

here's how the opening line went (from me) when I arrived and saw him sitting in the main chairs (which, by the way, are mine and my bozouki player colleague):

<leaning over to shake his hand after I'd sat down in a spot very much not my own, and said in a very polite manner, almost sarcastic> Hi. I'm Dave. Who are you and why are you sitting in my chair?

I thought that was enough information for him to politely say"oh, i'm sorry, i didn't realize there were set seats here....my fault. I'll pop over here"
But no. That clearly didn't happen.
So as you see, that set the tone for either:
a) a confrontation (and I'm out to enjoy myself once a week playing tunes with friends, not to bicker and punch out some asshole)
b) walk out (which is what I chose to do when the other chicken-hearted members of the session didn't step up and set this dude straight....they let me shoulder it and I simply gave up and played elsewhere.......they apologized the following week after they saw him doing the "sled ride down the cliff," as it was described. Turns out I had the most fun that night. Ha!)

We've had many many top players sit in our session. It's a good congenial and open group. We invite new faces to start sets, we're happy to hear from them in conversation, etc. But the etiquette is you are a guest.....not the guest star.

I've also done the "structured" seisiun where the book-readers and tune-callers were in attendance. It was in St. Louis. It was awful. (for me, that is; nice people, but certainly not my style of playing).....

But I sat it through the evening as I was a guest, politely played tunes that bored me to tears (I will puke at The Butterfly) and shook hands at the end of the evening. Kept to myself the comments of derision and figured, "they're happy and it's not like I live here."

That was that. No harm; no foul. I did not take over any portion of the evening; that would have been way out of line.

They asked me to start a set, which I did: of tunes I absolutely knew they would know. I played them down-tempo and without much variation or ornamentation. They loved it.

Worst: it was not in a pub so a pint (or two or three with a whiskey chaser) was not an option. It was in a music shop.