Copley & B delrin or Sweetheart Renaissance laminated ?

gerardo1000 · Post by **gerardo1000** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:43 am

Which flute would you choose ? They both cost around the same price (below $ 400.00). You can look at both of them at www.irishflutestore.com.
Which has the best sound ? Which is the easiest to play ?
Thank you for your advice !

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:53 am

Get the Copley in delrin, it's a great flute to get started on.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:05 am

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago wrote:Get the Copley in delrin, it's a great flute to get started on.

I agree, and it's also a very nice flute even if you play already!

But you have another excellent choice, only in real wood (no laminations), and that would be Casey Burns Folk Flute. And you get your choice of 3 different woods! That's a hard deal to pass up for just a little more than the Copley, and still be under $400. As much as I like Delrin, I still like wood better. I think it has an edge in tone, and it feels good too. If you are only going to have one flute, I would go with wood, unless you absolutely won't take care of it.

Buy one, and get the other later too!

Be well, Barry

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:18 pm

The Copley Delrin. I just played Dave's latest one last weekend, and it's great.

gerardo1000 · Post by **gerardo1000** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:30 pm

There are two versions of the Copley delrin: one without silver rings and one with. The difference is $ 75.00. I wonder if it is only a cosmetic difference ?
Can you help ? Thanks

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:57 pm

Merely cosmetic. I like rings and asked David if he'd put some on if I was to order a flute from him, and he said no problem -- though they weren't necessary in any way.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:57 pm

Copley delrin for sure. I've really been enjoying mine and it has prompted me to play more and I've made progress as a result.

I'll also second the Casey Burns folk flutes. They require a little more care but it's still pretty basic upkeep.

The delrin though is almost worry free, especially with the hempless, corkless tenons.

Relating to the session etiquette thread, at my local some guy at the bar was losing his legs and was banging away on spoons. We just went with the flow and one player started to play spoons too. I took the bottom joint of my flute and start ticking it on the rest of the flute like claves. Not a scuff to be found.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:35 pm

Cathy Wilde wrote:The Copley Delrin. I just played Dave's latest one last weekend, and it's great.

Hi Cathy,

I recently read in a post that you have a Forbes as well. I own a Copley delrin now and was thinking of trying a Forbes....would you care to comment on the two. I suspect they're both great flutes; I know my Copley is. Just wondering about the difference in tone, RH finger stretch, overall playability, and finish.

Oh, and to bring this back to the thread, the Forbes might be another excellent choice at $410 shipped.

Jay

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:40 pm

The sweetheart resonance is actually a pretty nice flute, I was able to try one back in January and was really impressed. It was much better than the regular sweetheart keyless I used to have, and was an all around good flute.

That said, I think my copley C flute is fantastic.

Sillydill · Post by **Sillydill** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:35 pm

If you could be tempted by a wooden flute.

I would strongly recommend MsC's currently offered Fred Rose flute! http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=62970

It is an all around excellent flute, especially when you consider the price!

But if low maintence is your theme, then I would suggest the Copley as being more capable than, the easy playing Sweet.

BUT GET A FLUTE AND GET PLAYING!

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:46 am

Jay wrote:
Cathy Wilde wrote:The Copley Delrin. I just played Dave's latest one last weekend, and it's great.
Hi Cathy,

I recently read in a post that you have a Forbes as well. I own a Copley delrin now and was thinking of trying a Forbes....would you care to comment on the two. I suspect they're both great flutes; I know my Copley is. Just wondering about the difference in tone, RH finger stretch, overall playability, and finish.

Oh, and to bring this back to the thread, the Forbes might be another excellent choice at $410 shipped.

Jay

Hi, Jay!

I have to admit, that's a tough call. In fact, I just told David if he gets around to making them in other keys ....

This flute I played Sunday was grand. It's thicker and heavier than the Forbes, so feels more dense. It's very warm, especially for a Delrin flute. Plenty of volume, too -- Dave offered to let me take it home but I've got four D flutes as it is and am supposed to be saving for a pipe chanter, so didn't need to get fond of yet another. Anyway, though I didn't play it for very long (we were messing with other flutes at the time and we were both on a schedule), it sure felt like he's nailed it.

The Forbes is a lighter weight, and I would say has a bit more of a buzz in the hands -- it FEELS like it has a bigger bore-to-diameter ratio (i.e., it's thinner-walled) or is of a different-density Delrin. Both flutes project well and are a pleasure to play. Both are capable of a wide tonal range. Both are finished just fine; kind of a matte finish in both cases. With rings, I suspect from a distance both would pass as blackwood. (I do like the Forbes's turned end cap a lot, though

)

The Copley is a little more Rudallesque with smaller toneholes and a slightly less brash tone -- it also, like a Rudall, is a bit easier on the RH stretch but that's a bigger issue with other people than me ... so in other words, I don't really notice such things unless they're extreme (and I play both a Rudall and an Olwell Pratten, so ...). David's flute is wonderfully warm, rich, and in tune -- and the Forbes is pure Pratten, capable of that metallic "bang" on the low and middle D as well as a pretty hard "edge." It's also wonderfully in tune and can be warm and rich but it's got just a little more of an astringent quality to the Copley's richer quality.

Me, I'd probably be happy with either, though I've gotten kind of attached to my wee Forbes; it's given me some lovely worry-free outdoor gigs in all kinds of weather, and in that regard has earned back its purchase price several times over.

We are so lucky to have flutes like these now -- tough, in-tune, not so sensitive to the elements and much more forgiving to a beginner -- and then there's Casey's Folk Flute!!!!

-- I look back at my first klunky wooden $350 flute that leaked, wobbled, and cracked in a month and I don't see how anyone can complain about what's on offer out there in this price range now!

Cat.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:54 am

Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough comparison Cathy.

I have the Copley with rings and it looks very classy. My experience is just as you describe- warm, rich, and in tune. Overall, very well balanced and consistent. I would definately recommend it to someone just starting out, and likewise as a travel flute for someone who's been at it a while.

Best,
Jay

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:17 am

Jay wrote:I have the Copley with rings and it looks very classy. My experience is just as you describe- warm, rich, and in tune. Overall, very well balanced and consistent. I would definately recommend it to someone just starting out, and likewise as a travel flute for someone who's been at it a while.

Highly similar to my experience. I'd actually like to get the same Delrin flute but with tuning slide and keys. I noticed in pictures that the wooden versions seem to have a traditional embouchure cut as opposed to the slightly squarish cut.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:54 am

Guinness wrote:Highly similar to my experience. I'd actually like to get the same Delrin flute but with tuning slide and keys. I noticed in pictures that the wooden versions seem to have a traditional embouchure cut as opposed to the slightly squarish cut.

I've owned two different Copley delrin flutes. The first had the rounded rectangle. I would characterize it as very easy to play and very consistent. I also own a 4-key blackwood Copley and found it difficult to switch back and forth from the rounded rectangle to the oval; the embouchures being so different. I sold that delrin flute and asked Dave to make me another delrin flute with the same embouchure as his blackwood flutes, which he did.

The biggest difference between the two embouchures is the rectangle is much easier to play consistently, and has a very consistent tone (warm, rich, and in tune); while the ovalish one allows more flexibility in tone, but takes a bit more effort from the player, a bit more refined embouchure to hit the sweet spot.

Jay

azw · Post by **azw** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:33 am

Thanks to Cat and others for the reviews. Very helpful.

It really is true that we have some great choices now.

For a low end possibility, you might check out one of the eBay flutes from instrumentmaker777. I got one for about $110. I can get a louder sound from other flutes, like my Casey Burns or Steve Cox bamboo, but it feels like my embouchure has improved as a result of playing it. Maybe it's just a matter of having it handy so I'm less likely to pick up a whistle. But I also think it's more demanding, so it's forcing me to focus on good embouchure. That said, when I'm playing with others, I usually use my Casey Burns.