Opinion, please . . .

[MTGuru]

How about this. "Would all you people with breasts and female sex organs enter your data so I can ...". It's far more precise and less folksy, and it preserves his exact meaning.

What's that, Mr. 28-year old? You're appalled by that rewrite? Well DUH.

Congratulations: To me, as a manager, it's as much a matter of professionalism and relevance. If you're addressing a mixed group, and there's a gender division of tasks for whatever strange reason, then maybe the distinction might be relevant. "Would you gals enter your data, and you guys all stick your fingers in your ears" or whatever. Otherwise it's just unprofessional and irrelevant.

[Congratulations]

Congratulations: To me, as a manager, it's as much a matter of professionalism and relevance. If you're addressing a mixed group, and there's a gender division of tasks for whatever strange reason, then maybe the distinction might be relevant. "Would you gals enter your data, and you guys all stick your fingers in your ears" or whatever. Otherwise it's just unprofessional and irrelevant.

Oh, I agree. I hope my post didn't seem flippant. All I'm saying is that, personally, while I see that it's a silly thing for a person in management to say or do, I don't see that it is particularly worthy of any amount of ire. Very similar to Dale's comment, I guess.

[CHasR]

. The only issues I've encountered with sexism were with customers at the cigar shop who would literally ignore the female employee and ask me my opinion on product.

I used to employ a really tall guy...no matter how many times I'd spoken/faxed, emailed etc with the client, invariably the first time f2f, they would assume the taller man was the boss, not me. Not like I'm napoleon-size, ( I'm 5'10", actually) but my employee was 6'6" and towered over pretty much everybody.

[I.D.10-t]

Subject: Email etiquette NRN

To the Management,

It seems that there has become a gap forming between those that have been working Pre-Email and those that have only worked in an environment that uses the modern form of communication. In the past the manager could come back from a three martini lunch and slurr out a request and his assistant would type out a professional letter. The letter would have propper formatting, spelling, and would only be sent to those that needed the information (not “CC” to every one that works here). Words like bloke, gals, guys, girls, and batsards, would be substituted with workers, staff, and employees to sound professional. These responsibilities now fall on the manager.

Some new abbreviations have been introduced to help with communications. In subject lines, where the space is limited EOM For “end of message” and NRN for “No Reply Necessary”, but for the most part, others like lol, omfg, rtfm, and stfuygdb do not add any real information and can cause confusion.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

Ralphredric Ideetendashtee


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, that is the best I can do in the morning. Tell you the truth, I still feel weird using first names all the time, especially in corresponding through Email. Dear Amy? Ugg... My grade school English teacher would be disappointed.

I used to employ a really tall guy...no matter how many times I'd spoken/faxed, emailed etc with the client, invariably the first time f2f, they would assume the taller man was the boss, not me.

Probably why the military made subordinates walk behind and to the left. Helps to prevent such confusion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As a side thought, Managers should lead by example. How are the employees suppose to know what proper etiquette is when they never see it? I still have little clew on what is acceptable Email protocol, but I know that I would not correspond in the way that many of them have. I often wonder what kind of management covers offices that have one of those "I can only help one person a day" signs.

[Flyingcursor]

I agree with Congratulations that this is nothing to get excited about. I have a regular customer who calls me "sweety", "honey", "cutie" etc. No big deal.

Since so many people are uptight about things I never use gender references as in the original posts.

[anniemcu]

... Help me out here, please. Help me express what I'm feeling. I'm feeling something, but I just can't get a grip on it.

What you're feeling, dear Lamby, is the urge to get a grip on his pencil neck and shake.

It could easily be worded, "Please submit your data." without the possibly offensive terms.

[fearfaoin]

Interestingly, at one time, I might have written "Would you guys..." because
"guys" is actually gender-neutral in that sort of collective context (like y'all).
But I've been yelled at for that...

[WyoBadger]

Where do we get this idea, in our divsity-celebrating society, that addressing someone as "ladies" or "gentlemen" is offensive? Is being a lady or a gentleman something we should be ashamed of?

My two colleagues in town are ladies, on fairly friendly terms, and when I address an email to them I refer to them as "Ladies." Or by their names. Saying "Dear fellow music teachers" sounds a bit stuffy. I guess we're pretty friendly in these here parts. There is certainly no underlying agenda or hidden meaning.

And "gals" is a bit on the casual side for professional correspondance, just as "guys" or "dudes" would be. Just not insulting, IMO.

The real problem, of course, is that we have no plural form of "you" in English.

T

[djm]

Is being a lady or a gentleman something we should be ashamed of?

If your relationship with your readers is such that they should all be ladies, then "Ladies" would not be offensive. Your example of the fellow teachers is an address to peers whom you apparently are on friendly terms with. In a work environment where the underlings do not necessarily need to be female to perform the work but all are (aka the "pink ghetto"), where screaming tantrums are always festering just below the surface, it is especially foolish to to remind the underlings that they are all underlings and that they are all females. That's just plain dangerous.

djm

[jsluder]

The real problem, of course, is that we have no plural form of "you" in English.

y'all

[Innocent Bystander]

Lamby,

This is an occasion where you can fight fire with fire.

Get everyone who finds themselves irked by this kind of usage to respond (where necessary) using "Yes Sir, Mr <Insert name here> Sir!"

Maybe that's not right for your office. But just be a wee bit too polite and submissive. If he's a complete prat he won't notice. But if he has half a brain he'll begin to wonder after a while, and ask quiet questions. Don't hold your breath. But meantime, it should help you blow off steam.

[Innocent Bystander]

The real problem, of course, is that we have no plural form of "you" in English.

y'all

Youse.

[WyoBadger]

The real problem, of course, is that we have no plural form of "you" in English.

y'all

Youse.

According to my southern belle sister in law, y'all is singular. The plural is "all y'all."

I hope that helps.

Hey, lamby, how about slipping an anonymous piece of paper on the guy's (sorry, gentleman's) desk with the url for this thread? Might get the point across.

T

[jsluder]

y'all

Youse.

According to my southern belle sister in law, y'all is singular. The plural is "all y'all."

"Y'all" can be singular or plural. "All y'all" is always plural. (I ain't no belle, but I did grow up in the south.)

"You'uns" is another possibilty.

[I.D.10-t]

The real problem, of course, is that we have no plural form of "you" in English.

I thought the problem is that we stopped using the singular thou.