invited to a military base

[Wanderer]

I was in the Navy during the first persian gulf dustup, but haven't been on a base since 9/11, so I can't say what may or may not have changed. Lambchop's post seems sensible and on the mark.

The first thing that struck me as funny about military bases when I first joined was how many surveillance cameras there were inside of corridors in buildings. I always thought those movies where spies had to shoot out cameras every 15 feet were a bit over the top. Not so much.

[fruladog]

I work with a bunch of Air Force officers and enlisted personnel. I asked them what's the most common mistake civilians make on base. The vast majority said flag etiquette. If you happen to be on base when the flag is being raised or lowered, STOP DEAD in your tracks, face the flag, and place your right hand over your heart. If you don't, you won't be arrested, but you will get verbal abuse like you've never experienced before.

[gonzo914]

I work with a bunch of Air Force officers and enlisted personnel. I asked them what's the most common mistake civilians make on base. The vast majority said flag etiquette. If you happen to be on base when the flag is being raised or lowered, STOP DEAD in your tracks, face the flag, and place your right hand over your heart. If you don't, you won't be arrested, but you will get verbal abuse like you've never experienced before.

But then again, you should ask yourself "Just because they worship the flag, should I? That may be their graven idol, but is it mine? And should I follow along just for the sake of conforming?"

[djm]

You can at least stop and stand at attention, facing the flag. This is done, if for no other reason, as a sign of respect for the belief of others ... especially if they are armed.

djm

[fruladog]

[quote="gonzo914]But then again, you should ask yourself "Just because they worship the flag, should I? That may be their graven idol, but is it mine? And should I follow along just for the sake of conforming?"[/quote]

If the heat were only directed at you, gonzo914 does have a point. Unfortunately the heat will also be directed at your host.

[Cork]

I work with a bunch of Air Force officers and enlisted personnel. I asked them what's the most common mistake civilians make on base. The vast majority said flag etiquette. If you happen to be on base when the flag is being raised or lowered, STOP DEAD in your tracks, face the flag, and place your right hand over your heart. If you don't, you won't be arrested, but you will get verbal abuse like you've never experienced before.

But then again, you should ask yourself "Just because they worship the flag, should I? That may be their graven idol, but is it mine? And should I follow along just for the sake of conforming?"

@ gonzo914

In all honesty, it's likely that the military perspective could not be readily understood by the majority of the civilian population.

Military personnel, for instance, are trained to do most hazardous acts, on command, where there is no room for second guessing.

In a manner of speaking, the military is a very polarized world, flag included.

[dwest]

To serve or not to serve has been an individual choice within the RSF for some years.

Not in the whole RSF. The branch I come from still writes people out of Meeting for joining the military.

Richard Nixon (different branch) was written out, too.

From the Colorado Srings Gazette:

Lt. Col. Dwight Roblyer is a First Friends member. He's also a staff officer for Air Force Space Command headquarters. Raised Baptist, Roblyer found First Friends Church when he was stationed here in 1994, and returned to the church when he and his family came back two years ago.

He likes that First Friends has a handful of military members and that the church makes them feel welcome. That wasn't the case at a Friends congregation in California.

"They made it very clear that, as military members -- and even as Christians -- we wouldn't feel comfortable in their meetings," he said.

Roblyer believes his career is compatible with his Christianity. In fact, he believes God called him into the military.

[Lambchop]

That's right! Flag etiquette! I intended to include that, but forgot.

Yes, you stop dead in your tracks, face the flag, and place your right hand over your heart. Don't move around or slouch.

Sounds simple, but . . . where the heck is the flag? You probably can't see it, but you'll know when it's being raised or lowered by the bugle call. It might be very faint.

If you can't see it, how do you know where to face? Simple. Find out where the flagpole is ahead of time. Be aware of your location and it's location, so that you will know where to face. (This is where those fancy map skills come into play.)

What about posts that have more than one unit headquarters and thus more than one flag? Face the one closest. Yes, you have to remember the locations of all of them. (Those map skills again!)

This event occurs in the early morning and around dinnerish. The easiest way to deal with it is to simply stay indoors. If the flag goes up at 7 a.m. and comes down at 5 p.m., do not go out beforehand unless you can get where you are going, i.e., indoors or off base, before it begins.



Incidentally, retired military might be interested in knowing that you may now actually render a salute to the flag when it is being raised or lowered, or passing in parade, or when the national anthem is sung, even if you are in civilian clothing. Nice, hmm?

[gonzo914]

When I was a cop, we for a short while had a patrol captain who was an ex-jarhead and who labored under the misapprehension that just because cops and military wore uniforms, they were similar. He decided that at public events where the national anthem was played, most of which were athletic department related, we all needed to look sharp and stand at attention and snap off a salute.

First football game, I got talked to for not coming to attention or saluting.

Second game, I got talked to for giving a two-fingered Cub Scout salute, and we all had to go through saluting training and were told it was the law.

Third game, I was caught on video giving a Benny Hill salute and threatened with paperwork, to which I responded that I would certainly appeal it to HR.

Fourth game, rather than do the HR thing, we worked out a modus vivendi. If for some reason I was within sight of the flag when the anthem played, I simply retreated around a corner out of the way. I guess there's a loophole in the flag code that says you do not have to salute a flag you cannot see. I was eventually assigned somewhere in the bowels of the stadium, the out of sight and out of mind, and also out of the heat and the rain, which was all I wanted in the first place.

The moral -- The US flag code is purely voluntary; it has no provision for enforcement; and nobody can make you do it. But bear in mind, too, that Army Regulation 840-10 -- Flags, Guidons, Streamers, Tabards, and Automobile and Aircraft Platesis more than 80 pages long, and there is probably something in there that says they can throw your ass out if you display anything other than lickspittle adherence to the flag code.

Leave your tabard at home and do not feed the guidons.

[fel bautista]

Guidons- haven't read that term in an age (AFROTC way back when)

[Jack]

So I have a question about Fort Bragg. How far is it from Fayetteville? Are there any nice malls or other places to shop nearby?

[Lambchop]

Everything you wanted to know. Be sure to check out the post access info!

http://www.bragg.army.mil/

Now that we know it's Army, it's called a "fort" or "post," not a base. Air Force has bases, Army has forts or posts.

"We're almost at the fort." "I'll be on post for a while."

[fel bautista]

And submarines are boats and the rest are targets

[Martin Milner]

All your forts are belong to US.

[mutepointe]

Will you tell us about the trip when you get back?