Cliffs of moher and F natural

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:51 pm

When you play Cliffs of Moher is the F in the B part an F natural or F sharp? I'm talking about the F in the first 3 notes. Grey Larsen's book shows an F natural but other sources show an F sharp. It sounds right either way. When they play at our session I'm not sure which note it is. It's one of those notes that I have trouble hearing what note it is. I lack perfect pitch so I go on what seems right but both seem right.

When I play an F natural I half-hole it. Is that the right way to make an F natural? Or is there a cross-fingered solution?

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:55 pm

I can't answer the first part. But yes, I think half-holing is about the only way to get an F natural. I've been playing 'Carolan's Dream', which has a prominent F natural in both the A and B parts. Ya gotta finesse that one a bit.

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:24 am

Diane,

F# or F nat, it doesn't really matter so long as everyone is playing the same thing. Makes for a nice variation using both. I have had to stop playing the Chicago Reel for the exact same reason. Some folks learned the tune with an F nat in the B part, and some with an F#. If I do dare to play the Chicago, I have to say that I am playing it with an F#, and with an F nat the second time through, etc. Otherwise, it always derails.
Arbo

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:01 am

When I actually play that note instead of some other figure (rolling the E, triplet to the G, etc.), I tend to play an F-supernatural, somewhere between F and F#. Just roll off to slide up to the note and back to E, no careful half-hole necessary. Maybe that's cheating.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:08 am

In general, half holing is pretty much at the bottom of the list of things I can do, and that's not to say I've ever had any particular success at it.

Inconsistent and murky, at best, could be a fair description of my half holing abilities.

Maybe one of these days, years, or decades I'll work it out.

Meanwhile, I'm in the camp which knows why keys were invented.

:-)

David Levine · Post by **David Levine** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 am

Ignoring Cork's comments ( I don't think Cork goes to sessions. I often play a key-less flute in sessions and I half-hole with no obvious problem - solo is another story), you can play the tune either way or both ways. It's good to be flexible and to be able to go from Fn to F# when you want to. I often use the Eb and G# keys to see how the tune would sound. Depends on the session- loud and boisterous or retrained and serious - and the other musicians.

Why would you want to stop playing a tune because you're not sure where one note fits in? I play Chicago with an F# but I were playing with somebody who used an Fn I would do it that way. Or expect them to accommodate me. It gets interesting when two people want to play to the other's setting and so they each play a different note every time through. Best not to take it too seriously.

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:10 am

Does anybody else find that there are a few tunes where there are notes like this that you can't tell which note it is? There are some tunes (which ones escape me now) where I'm not sure if it's a C or C# and either way it sounds right. I mean, I can't really tell even when hearing it. Sometimes I don't think it's either. Maybe I'm hearing the "supernatural", as you say.

As for the half-holing, F is easy enough and so is Bb. G# is not easy. For me anyway. At least that one I can cross finger with practice.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:59 am

G sharp half holed comes with time, IMO.
Scales in the key of A and patience.
It does become routine.

rama · Post by **rama** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:19 am

as far as "the cliffs...",
i find any or no note will do at that point . it doesn't matter what it is. it won't affect the tune. actually, it's the note that precedes it that i think matters and so i try to accent that.
and this might explain why you may hear different things being played by different folks.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:37 pm

What rama said.

Heck, do 'em all - for sure if you're playing solo, anyway. Variation is the spice of traditional music. You can skirt the F question altogether by rolling the E or cranning it or going into it with a long "nyah" slide from below; you can use Fnat, keyed if you have the choice or half-holed, depending on what you're after; a hop up to a cut G instead of Fnat (the ascending triplet sounds good, MTGuru; an obvious solution that I didn't even think of. Thanks!), and I just realised that a jump up to the high A or down to the low A could sound pretty nifty too. There have got to be more available to you, as well.

I'm not too inclined to use the F#, but who knows for the future.

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:55 pm

Thanks for those ideas! For me, variations don't come all that natural unless really simple, like maybe skip a note, take a breath, do a roll or a cut or something really simple like that. I never am sure what notes to substitute. Aside from a lack of musicality and creativity, I wouldn't want to be accused of playing jazz or something.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:49 pm

The ones I mentioned are pretty simple, too, really. Simple's what I do, myself. All you need to do is now and then when you're bored pick up your instrument and try stuff and see if it works, and if it does, put it into your bag-o-trix.

Flutered · Post by **Flutered** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:46 am

sbfluter wrote:Does anybody else find that there are a few tunes where there are notes like this that you can't tell which note it is? There are some tunes (which ones escape me now) where I'm not sure if it's a C or C# and either way it sounds right.

Have a good listen to lots of fiddle and pipe players - people like Paddy Canny. They are often playing a note a little bit flat or a bit sharp here or there, sliding into notes - it's not sloppy playing, it's deliberately done to enhance the character of the music. C is a very variable note in particular.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:45 am

sbfluter wrote:.......
For me, variations don't come all that natural unless
...............

variations tend to come natural only after a very long time immersion and performance of the thing

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:30 am

I can't recall ever noticing anybody, live or recorded, playing an F nat anywhere in Cliffs of Moher - not saying it isn't/shouldn't be done, just that I haven't come across it, and it's a pretty bog-standard sesh tune!
FWIW, I tend to play a dotted crotchet E at the beginning of the B music, often gracing into it by hitting a very brief D first. I vary what I do on the various recurrences of the figure.