Am I entitled, aka What is entitlement?

[fearfaoin]

Socialist? Bah. You can say (at least to yourself), "Yes, I feel entitled to the
compensation that I was offered as part of the agreement for the sale of
my services. Such is the basis of a free market economy."

[Flyingcursor]

Maybe you can catch one in a breach of ethics and nail them to the wall.
As for the new person, get online and see what dirt you can dredge up.
Heh heh heh.

[jim stone]

A helpful distinction, IMO.

Legal rights are rights given us in the law. They're on the books,
they are legally enforceable.

Moral rights are rights we have whether or not they
are given us in the law.

So women had a moral right to vote in the USA long
before they got the legal right. African American slaves
had a moral right to be free long before they had
the legal right.

Conversely slave owners had a legal right to own slaves,
indeed, according to the Supreme Court, it was
a constitutional right, but they never had the moral
right.

One of the ways we evaluate a society is whether
it legally protects moral rights.

To say that one is entitled to X is to say one has
a moral right to X. This entails that anybody who
denies me X wrongs me, treats me unjustly or unfairly--
whether or not doing so is legal.

Susan's question is whether she has a moral right
to those benefits. She does. The question of whether
she has a legal right to them (is legally entitled)
is one for the lawyers. But fair is fair.

[susnfx]

Thanks for all the replies--especially that heads up about losing lots if you switch to a 401K (something that's been discussed).

I've got it straight in my head now and could discuss it with the administrator (if he ever asked for my input on anything--he doesn't). The benefits were given to me as part of my compensation package when I was hired and, as Missy said, it's been mentioned to us many times that our benefits are part of our compensation. I am entitled to them and there's nothing wrong with me feeling entitled to them. They're not gifts, given at the good will of the doctors, they're basically a monetary/non-monetary compensation for my work. The clinic is morally (thanks, Jim) obligated to continue to provide me with those benefits unless there is some unavoidable reason they can't. And increasing the physicians' profit sharing or income at the expense of the employees is not an unavoidable reason.

Susan

[djm]

Susan's question is whether she has a moral right to those benefits. She does.

Morals are debatable. A paycheque is not. You will go nowhere in court if your arguments are based solely on your personal interpretation of moral rights with an employer. You need to get stuff in writing in the form of a legally binding contract, else you haven't got a leg to stand on.

djm

[susnfx]

To clarify, djm....I'm not asking about legalities. My question has been about "feeling" entitled to my benefits. The administrator appears to believe that we have no right to feel entitled to them--if we feel entitled to them, we're socialists. I believe there's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling entitled to benefits given to me as part of my compensation package--whether in writing or not.

Susan

[sbfluter]

So many people hitch their livelihoods to the corporate bandwagon, thinking they will be safe and secure. There is no security anymore. Your pension can (and probably will) disappear. Your 401K can be worthless when the market collapses. You signed an at-will contract and can be fired at any time for no reason (fortunately you can quit at any time for no reason, too). You can get sick and your health insurance can cancel you during treatment.

Personally, I have decided not to put my faith in that whole system anymore. I'd rather be broke and on my own than play their games anymore. That includes buying their products. Whenever possible, I pick the non-corporate option.

Now where's that tinfoil emoticon?

[djm]

if we feel entitled to them, we're socialists

What's wrong with being a socialist? You say it as if it's a bad thing. Socialist comes from "social" - people. You are complaining that you are not being treated like a person. Isn't that wrong?

By coincidence, a new report was just released yesterday in Geneva that points out that social injustice is killing far more people than anything else, in both rich and poor nations.

djm

[Flyingcursor]

To clarify, djm....I'm not asking about legalities. My question has been about "feeling" entitled to my benefits. The administrator appears to believe that we have no right to feel entitled to them--if we feel entitled to them, we're socialists. I believe there's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling entitled to benefits given to me as part of my compensation package--whether in writing or not.

Susan

Sounds like that person is living in some other decade.

[fearfaoin]

What's wrong with being a socialist?

During the cold war era, being called a socialist was the next thing to being
called a pinko commie. You 'd respond by saying "Smile when you say that,
comrade".

Some people still think Reagan is president.

[Bloomfield]

Some people still think Reagan is president.

Yes, but he's had a lobotomy in the mean time.

Susan, you should add to your cheat-sheet of arguments that you took the job because of the benefits, and that you relied on receiving them. Reliance is good. (And you might want to see whether there is an employee handbook and what it says about changes to benefits without agreement of the employees.)

[harpmaker]

What you are legally entitled to is very little, if anything at all, unless you have something in writing. Verbal contracts are worth only the paper they are written on.

As Bloom mentioned, if there is something in the employee handbook, that will help, but even that can be changed very quickly at the employers discretion will unless it is is written otherwise.

Morally entitiled is all well and good, but it won't pay the billls when they come due.

Document everything, and keep records of all meetings and conversations, even going so far as to send after meeting memos such as "per todays conversation". This may help down the road with legal issues. Although all it may do is just give you an edge or enough rope to hang someone with if push comes to shove. (been there, done that and got an extra 24 weeks severance pay because I had the foresight to put certain things in writing)

But as far as to what you are legally entitled to, you need to see a good lawyer, and do it quick.