humidifying

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 6:00 am

I have friends here in St. Louis
who own blackwood flutes, including
one with a keyed Abell worth thousands.
They aren't humidifying their flutes,
nor are their flutes getting cracks.
They've had em for years.

I know we're supposed to do that,
for safety sake, but friends
say it isn't necessary here--
at least not under ordinary
conditions.
Well, opinions? Are they right?
'Better safe than sorry'
makes sense, of course,
but the time spent doing
all this seems wasted if
the real risk is minimal.

Sorry, I thought I was posting
this on the flute forum...
It's 2 AM and I'm more
confused than usual.
Flautists, will you answer
anyway?

Question:
What's the difference tween a flutist
and a flautist? Ans: 50 dollars an hour.

[ This Message was edited by: jim stone on 2002-12-20 07:03 ]

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 6:26 am

Hi Jim,

Can't really answer your question, but logic and a little O'Level Chemistry and Woodwork suggests to me that constantly changing the humidity level up and down might be worse than a constant slightly low humidity.

I love your posts, I always read them like they're freeverse poetry!

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:30 am

Thanks for your kind words, Martin,
and for the sensible advice.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:44 am

I don't know what the normal humidity levels in St. Louis are like, but if they're anything like North Carolina, I'd think you'd want to humidify during the winter months, at least. I know in NC during the summer, it was humid enough (even indoors with air conditioning) to keep even my terrible skin in good condition, but come winter, watch out! I know that wood is probably less sensitive than human skin, but that does demonstrate what a radical change in humidity can do. I'd say better safe than sorry.

Redwolf

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:07 pm

I live in a NYC apartment with radiator heating that is difficult to control and humidity levels are up and down here anyway, albeit not as bad as some other locations. I keep my whistles out (no cases)in a locked (definitely not air tight)display cabinet and make no efforts whatever to control humidity with respect to the whistles, other than of course not storing them on or near the darn radiators or window sills.

I have some African blackwood pieces that I sort of forgot about and don't play much any more and they've been stored like that for years and without any oil (I generally lightly almond oil the outside of my woods after each session and dry swab the innards as well)- it's in much the same condition as always. I do however oil and swab my Blackwood Abells just not to take any chances because I love them so.

African blackwood seems a very dense and stable wood. I also have walnut and cocobolo pieces that are stable and seem to need little attention as well. My red lancewood Grinters however, I like to keep well oiled as they do not appear as stable a wood. The Grinters are holding up nicely as well.

As for metals, which I have neglected the innards of for years, they too need inner swabbing and cleaning as well. You should see what came out of the inside of my Copelands, Burkes and Sindts recently after I finally woke up and purchased some rods and cleaning materials (whistles with respiratory conditions). Makes a difference in sound and longevity in top condition. A note: be careful if you swab the Burke innards - there's a tuning ring of some sort in the tube that I dislodged but easily put back. I had no idea it was there. The Copelands and Sindts have no inner surprises and Michael and Jim recommend swabbing with scotchguard or 0000 super fine steel wool and an occasional hot water rinse.

OK - so retired people have more time for these cleaning tidbits.

Happy Holidays

Philo

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:21 pm

From what I recall of the St. Louis-area geography, i.e., down in a swamp where two enormous rivers come together, and typically SOUTH of the jetstream much of the winter, your friends are probably right. They might need to oil their instruments once in a while, but nowhere near as often in musicians who live up north.

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:55 pm

Jim, I posted a similar question to the flute board awhile back, and there was no real consensus. Most said, however, that regular oiling is absolutely essential. I do all my wooden whistles first weekend of every month.

I asked the people at HMT once about storing our harps, and they concur with Martin -- it's fast swings in humidity more than dryness that's the enemy.

I have a cigar humidifier in a Rubbermaid container that I have used (our Loren B's idea), which kept a constant 55-65% humidity, but now for some reason it's gone nuts -- 80%. So, I'll be keeping the whistles out, in a humidified room that's at about 50% in the winter.

We have had two antique blackwood flutes crack on us, so it does happen. Say it took 90-100 years for a heavy-walled flute, in a very thin-walled whistle, that might translate to 10-20 years. It's definitely worth caring for them.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:33 pm

I have a cigar humidifier in a Rubbermaid container that I have used (our Loren B's idea), which kept a constant 55-65% humidity, but now for some reason it's gone nuts -- 80%.

Charlie, maybe the humidifier is waterlogged. Put it in a refrigerator for a few days to dry it out, then recharge it with a 50/50 mixture of propylene glycol and water, but try not to completely saturate it.

Are you sure your hygrometer is accurate?

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:43 pm

Rides, I suspect you're right about the waterlogging, but I didn't know what the solution was; thanks for the tip. This started happening when I recharged it, with tap water, against the explicit instructions of the tobbaconist.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:02 pm

On 2002-12-20 15:43, chas wrote:
Rides, I suspect you're right about the waterlogging, but I didn't know what the solution was; thanks for the tip. This started happening when I recharged it, with tap water, against the explicit instructions of the tobbaconist.

In that case, it might be a good idea to immerse the unit in some distilled water and let it soak for a day or two to clean out any contaminants from the tap water. Then dry it out and recharge.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:51 pm

I was going to suggest the cigar "humidor".
Caveat one point : most lack ventilation, and can grow mildew. This can be cured by wiping them with a nearly-dry sponge moisted with water and a few drops of fridge disinfectant (I alsways confuse American brands Lysterine and Lysol; well, not the gargle one

).
You'd better open them, ventilate and inspect twice a month.
Now 50-55% relative humidity is extremely[/i] dry, typical of an electrically overheated apartment. Cigars are to be kept over 80%. It's just one of these funny scales, where 50% is not our subjective "medium".
A detail (is it ?) : when I check my relative humidity meter, I always tap its glass first. Just as for barometers, the results may be surprising...

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:13 pm

Now 50-55% relative humidity is extremely[/i] dry, typical of an electrically overheated apartment. Cigars are to be kept over 80%. It's just one of these funny scales, where 50% is not our subjective "medium".

Actually, cigars are happiest at 65-70% relative humidity. The use of 50/50 PG/water solution in the humidifying unit will cause the RH inside a closed container to stabilize at 70%. A higher proportion of PG will produce a lower RH. Moreover, the PG inhibits mildew.

After posting the above, I remembered that 80% (or higher) relative humidity is recommended for pipe tobacco. Maybe that's what you were thinking about.

[ This Message was edited by: Ridseard on 2002-12-20 22:51 ]

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:09 pm

On 2002-12-20 16:51, Zubivka wrote:
Now 50-55% relative humidity is extremely[/i] dry, typical of an electrically overheated apartment.

Well, that depends on where you live. In the colder climates it's not unusual for the indoor relative humidity in the winter to dip below 10% without a humidifier. Even here, where the low temps are in the range of 20-30F (0-minus8C), it's around 30% in the rooms we don't humidify.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 4:23 pm

Don't know. After all I live my life in a humidor : 70-80% relative hygrometer; 8-18° Celsius... It's called Brittany.
The only problem is the atm. pressure 980-1030 hPa (735~775 mm Hg). Today 740 mm, yuccchhh. On the positive side, my cigars couls care less. They're more concerned with their 65° taxes (Richter's scale

)
I'll tell you later if Brittany works as a whistle humidor -- ordered my first woody yesterday. Didn't know they could be something else than aluminum or tin before hitting C&F

Now I've seen the light. I know that it can be wood, and if it cracks, I can blame it on my climate. Or cigars.

brianormond · Post by **brianormond** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 5:18 pm

-A 1911 Gibson mandolin refinished by a previous owner with heavy varnish developed a crazed finish over its top in one unhumidified Michigan winter. Surprisingly, its sound improved and got brighter, apparently freed from vibration damping of the heavy finish. I suppose the crazing came from the rigid, heavy coat's inability to flex with the wood's vibration or expansion.

BTW, I see a humidifier running constantly in Dusty Strings' guitar room
and at another Seattle guitar shop-even with Seattle's normally moist winter. -Forced air heat, space heaters and radiators
must be hard on instruments regardless
of outdoor clime.

_________________

Brian O.

[ This Message was edited by: brianormond on 2002-12-21 18:25 ]