Has anyone started a Ceilidh Band

[Ben Shaffer]

Here in Greensboro,NC our last session venue has been closed a number of months. If you want to play with others you've got to go over to Winston-Salem and that session is only once a month. Or even further to Raleigh.
So what we have in the Triad area are 10+ musicians that I think would like to play a lot more than that.
I've been thinking it would be nice to have a Band that gets together say twice a month. Unlike a session where its just random whats played, this group could use the great Comhaltas Foinn Seisin Tunebooks with the sets. I think a group like this would work well in terms of getting to play Irish Music more with others. And given that you'd just read the music as you go along, anyone that could sight read would be able to join in on every set thats played. I realize playing by ear is a sacrament for many playing Irish Music, but I just think this could be a different and very enjoyable experience. A group like this could play for dances, events or just play for their own enjoyment.
Has anyone done anything like this? Keep in mind this would not be a slow session for beginning Musicians, many of the local musicians are veterans at playing Irish Music.

BenS

[Henke]

The problem with reading music as opposed to playing by ear IMO is that the individual approach (which is so important in our music) with all that goes along with it tends to be lost. With notes, I'm guessing you'll end up playing "irish tunes", but not really playing "irish music". I may be wrong.

[Jack Bradshaw]

The problem with reading music as opposed to playing by ear IMO is that the individual approach (which is so important in our music) with all that goes along with it tends to be lost. With notes, I'm guessing you'll end up playing "irish tunes", but not really playing "irish music". I may be wrong.

With what little experience I've had w/ that (reading together)...it isn't all that satisfying....if you're playing pretty much the same tunes each time, people will pick them up from the leader pretty quick..and you'll still have that "genuine" Ceilidh Band sound.....

[BrendanB]

Hey Ben,

I think it is a great idea to try and start a ceili band in your area, particularly if you have dancers that are looking for someone to play for sets or ceili dances. It's certainly a good way to get a bunch of people together and learn tunes.

That said, if you are going to play for dancers, you are going to need a really specific rhythm and tempo. You also are going to need to switch tunes during the different figures to keep it interesting. I don't think you should use play using sheet music in general for this kind of music, but particularly for a ceili it just won't work. It's not hard to memorize tunes and it really is an important skill. Just figure out some sets between the group of you and learn them. Find yourselves a piano player and a drummer and you'll be good to go.

Good luck,
B

[Baglady]

Sheet music when playing for dancers works just fine, especialy when the program is available previous. I do it all the time. And I am in bands where this is done regularly.

The reason you don't use sheets in sessions is because it stops the free flow of the music. When one tune sets off another or you do a long string of jigs you can't be flipping through your music to find the tunes.

[Ben Shaffer]

Baglady!
Thank You! Its about time someone stepped up to the plate and said its OK to play from Sheet Music!
That has exactly been my experience. Years ago when I first started to play Irish Music I started a Band with several other guys from my Fife and drum Corp,we played Weddings as well as Church Events. Myself on Flute, Steve Ware on Whistle, Rick Anderson on the bodhran as well as a local Fiddler Steve Cooper .We were all great sight readers and really had a ball playing Irish Jigs and Reels, the people loved us.... and you know what, if we were put behind a stage curtain I would guarantee no one on this list would say that we didn't sound great!
Don't get me wrong, I've payed my dues playing by ear at sessions, but there is a place to also play by using sheet music, and if your not doing it in a Band like we had, well you are missing out on a very fun experience
BenS

[kmag]

Hey there,
I think anything you do to get going sounds great. Of course to get into the swing of things it will be necessary to jettison the sheet music as soon as possible.
I wish you all the luck and you are lucky to have 10 musicians in your circle to make music with!
Written music is there for a reason and is a great encyclopedia. Don't waste it but express yourself as soon as possible.
Kurt

[Henke]

If you're convinced it will work then you don't need our oppinion, especially since you've done it before and you say it worked for you.
I've played in an ensemble which was put together and played trad music from sheets. We played a few swedish tunes, a few norweigian, some balkan, kletzmer and that kind of stuff, and some irish tunes. It sounded good, they were all accomplished musicians, but in the end I don't think it worked. It was just like a bunch of people reading stories out loud from a book just like the author wrote it, and what you really wanted was for the people to tell the stories from their hearts, with all their different personal touches, nuances and additions. Classical music works fine that way, because that's how it's supposed to be done, usually huge ensembles with very complicated arrangements and harmonics and stuff and everyone has to play exactly right with no room for personal inventions. I just don't think traditional music works that way, I think the soul of the music is lost.

[Ben Shaffer]

Kurt, good point, I really agree about the written music being a jumping off point. Once a musical group or an Individual has played over written music enough times they then commit it to memory. Does that make it inherently better music at that point ? Hard to say, I do like playing in sessions , written music is of course not used, and if your like me I can't even tell you the names of many of the tunes I play. But there again I have as much fun reading along with sheet music with good sight readers at other times
And Henke, what's traditional? Don't know, don't care! I've been playing different types of music now for 45 years, Pipes, Flute, whistle, in groups and by myself, with written music and without and you know, its all just music!
Along with the idea of starting a Ceilidh Band, I've been thinking about what sets might make be a good choice. Does anyone have any experience with the Comhaltas series of books, Seisiun Books 1 thru 3? or does anyone have any suggestions about a source for good sets?
BenS

[Henke]

I didn't mean to ring the 'pure drop' bell. I'm not a traditionalist when it comes to this music, god knows that 80-90% of the irish folk music I've played in my humble 6 years or so in this style of music has been fusions of different kinds. Very little of what I've done could qualify as attempts of playing pure drop. But it's folklore anyhow, and I've given my interpretations of it, made it my own. I've played with sheets and without them, and my opinion is that if it's possible to play by ear, one should since something is lost when you just play what's written on a paper. But hey, you've played for some 40 years longer that me, so how could I know? But then again, you did ask for our opinions....

And I don't think it's all just music. Music is an art form, it's a way of expression, it's something colourful and living that is sometimes very hard to define or describe. Describing music is what you do with sheet music, and many things always seem to get lost in translation.

[AaronMalcomb]

Keep in mind this would not be a slow session for beginning Musicians, many of the local musicians are veterans at playing Irish Music.

If this is the case then why the need for sheet music?

I can see maybe as a reference to get everybody playing the same setting but only that. Memorize the tunes and ditch the music stands. Then real ensemble playing begins. You'll also reduce equipment to haul around to gigs.

If this is ringing the 'pure drop bell' then call me Quasimodo.

[Ben Shaffer]

why this phobia against sheet music to learn tunes? Ive been doing it for years. If I learn a tune I pick up by ear, from a record, or from sheet music it comes sounding in my own style, regardless of how the tune was learned.
I could be wrong, but in my experience most people that are phobic about sheet music, just aren't great sight readers and of course trying to read or keep up with others is just not a fun experience for them
I learn tunes by all of these methods and find it enjoyable to do so.
This is just the way I've gone about learning Irish Music and it works for me. I'm not suggesting other people do as I do, or conversely I should learn the way they do. There's more than one way to skin a cat!
BenS
PS I hope no one takes offense at the Cat thing, I've got 3 of em

PS Arron...using the sheet music for the experienced Musicians keeps em on track when learning the sets, like an Agenda. Also saves time learning the tunes, as generally not everyone would know every tune.. after going through the sets a number of times, no one will need or want to use the written music at that point. Many of the Musicians will know a lot of the tunes, so they would probably be looking around at everything but the written music!

[Henke]

I didn't think you were talking about learning tunes via sheet music, I thought you talket about starting a Ceilidh Band and playing with sheet music as a group. Now those two are totally different things IMO.
My first musical schooling was strictly with sheet music, and I sometimes use it to learn tunes. For a while I played Böhm flute and got pretty good at sight reading. Now however, my ability to play from sheet music seems to fade as quickly as my ability to play by ear increases as I haven't really played written music in years.

[Ben Shaffer]

Henke,
I may not have explained my idea well. The sheet music would just be to get everyone focused, I would probably have a dozen plus sets to get started. I would focus most of the tunes on what the local musicians already know. People might glance at the music the first couple of times we practice, but probably not after that. The sheet music would work nice as Cliff Notes if you don't know a tune, but playing in the public eye I don't believe anyone would use sheet music, its just not done.... the tunes just come to fast, and everyone would know the tunes by then anyway.

That said my first " Irish Band"..The Valleymede Boys( from a fife and Drum group I was in) did just that, we played right out of Irish Tune books with music stands and the works , the people loved us and we didn't know any better!
I just like sheet music as a learning tool. I think almost everyone that plays Irish Music must feel this way judging from the sales of so many different Irish Tune books. I think also as a collateral benefit reading music keeps the mind young, this was true of both my Father and grandfather who both played music well on in their years..... the question then is justing playing music without reading as beneficial as reading and playing music....who knows? But they also liked a daily wee dram of whiskey! maybe that did it!
If I went to a new session and they happen to have a list of the tunes played or the actual music, I'd love to have it, if for nothing other than looking at the tunes I don't know, I'm also a pack rat and will take all the written music I come across. I may not use most of it, but I like having it!
Don't get the idea that learning tunes from music is never done by older traditional musicians either. I spoke with an older Irish Fiddler years back in New York..." oh yes I've learned a number of Tunes out of the Book!"
He of course was referring to O'Neils Music of Ireland. This kind of caught me of guard as I thought the music for these older Musicians was just picked up by ear .He said the ones that could chase dots did so. So this is right from the horses Mouth!

[Henke]

Well then Mr. Fandango, that's totally different and not something I would really oppose. I think most of us thought your band would bring sheet music to the gigs and play off paper, I did at least.
But as the good AaronMalcomb said. If they are experienced ITM musicians they'll have no problem picking the tunes up by ear eighter.

Cheers