Whistle with a clean upper register...

[Jerry Freeman]

...

[MTGuru]

I'll lock it again for now as a courtesy to Jerry, pending additional review.

[Dale]

MTGuru asked me to consult and I've read the thread and can't see a justification for locking this thread. Even if someone posts an opinion that is very much a minority opinion and unfounded, they've got a right to do that if there's no personal vendetta. Admirers of Jerry's work, and I'm one of them, will post accordingly.

Dale

[Thomaston]

In regards to Jerry's concerns about future passers-by reading this thread, I want to clarify my earlier recommendation for the Dixon Trad.
Both are damn good whistles. While I still feel that the Mellow Dog does take a little more air than the Trad, the Mellow Dog is not a hard blower. Matter of fact, if I had to choose one, I'd keep the Mellow Dog.
And I don't mean that as a slight against the Trad, either. Before I got the Mellow Dog, I went through several high end whistles (most in excess of $200) and eventually sold them all because the Trad met my needs time after time. It wasn't until the Mellow Dog that I found another whistle that was good enough to justify the price vs. my income.

[Jason Paul]

I'll speak up and say that the Mellow Dog is a great whistle, and the C body is especially nice.

I also think that Jerry's eagerness to handle any possible problems with his whistles (no matter when or where they were bought) speaks much louder than anything in this thread that seems to be negative about the Mellow Dog.

If you're new and anything in this thread gives you a negative impression about the Mellow Dog, know this: the Mellow Dog has been praised and recommended MANY times on this forum, and Jerry is well known for standing behind his work, no matter what.

Jason

[nduanetesh]

When I read the original post, my first thought was, "oh, there is someone else out there who feels the same about their Mellow Dog as I do!" When I received my C and D set for Christmas, I found the D to be (in my own opinion, of course) loud and shrill above high G--particularly compared with the C, which is an excellent example of what I would call a "mellow whistle". I told Jerry of my feelings, and then returned the whistle to him for additional tweaking (which he of course did for free), but once I had it back in my hand, I still felt it was quite loud above high G and still prone to squeaking on the high B. At the time I thought to myself that perhaps the problem was with the musician rather than the instrument, or perhaps this was just the nature of the whistle and I was expecting it to be something other than it was. Though somewhat inexperienced, I knew enough to realize that the Mellow Dog D was in all *other* ways easily the best whistle I owned, so I figured maybe I just needed to work with it. It is the whistle with which I spend 80% of my whistle playing time, and I still regard it as the best whistle I own...but it's also one of the loudest whistles I have in the high register.

With the literally hundreds of posts that can be found on this board which gush about Jerry's work, I don't think anyone should be worried that this thread is going to ruin--or even dent--Jerry's reputation. Neither the original poster nor myself have said that Mellow Dogs are bad whistles. In fact (to the contrary), I am going out of my way to say that I think it's an excellent whistle. There just happen to be two people in the world who find theirs to be louder than they expected them to be in the high register.

Thanks to the original poster for his question, and to everyone for their responses. The OP's question is one I've wondered myself many times and it's great to see folks' opinions. And thanks very much to the moderators for not locking this thread. It's been a very interesting and useful read.

[Thomaston]

nduanetesh-

I actually had a similar experience at first. For me, it was the player, not the whistle. With practice, the problems I had disappeared. Just keep working at it!

[Cayden]

Not sure what happened here overnight, did someone recommend a different whistle than the one discussed? That would be unprecedented on C&F , but here's my take on the issue:

Jerry sent me a number of prototypes, maybe five years ago, and my impression at the time was that the higher the note(especially from g' onward), the louder it became and the more wind it needed. I didn't particularly take to that feature but it seemed to me something Jerry was aiming for at the time as it was a consistent feature across various brands he worked on although I concede that it may just have been a by-product of other adjustments Jerry applied.

Just an observation of the situation at the time:

don't think Jerry changes anything about tuning. The higher octave needs more pressure, it has been argued too much by players used to untweaked whistles. You get used to it .
Most important tweak is the voicing, Jerry is better at describing what he's aiming for, the whistle I have is not of the latest tweaking scheme so it is not all that similar (in playing or voicing) to the 'old' generations Jerry is aiming for(it's overall louder with a more 'open' sound, especially the higher notes compared to the old whistles I have), in itself it's a fine whistle though.

It is something some whistle players here seem to prefer: rather than th need for a delicate breath-control they want the big blow 'leaning into the note' without breaking it. You find it in more 'modern' whistles. Horses for courses.

[Jerry Freeman]

I'll need to see that particular whistle.

Cullivan is describing some things that aren't charactericteristic of Mellow Dogs, and I need to see what's up with that. It's true they get louder as you get to the top of the upper register, but he's describing more than that, and I need to investigate.

Several months ago, I took to making my own tubes instead of tweaking Waltons Mellow D tubes, as it gives me more control over some things. With that, I was able to get the top notes a little quieter.

For some reason, a Mellow Dog whistlehead plays quieter on a key of C tube, right up to the top notes of the upper register. This remains a mystery.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[Jerry Freeman]

It is something some whistle players here seem to prefer: rather than the need for a delicate breath-control they want the big blow 'leaning into the note' without breaking it.

I actually had a similar experience at first. For me, it was the player, not the whistle. With practice, the problems I had disappeared.

There's something here, I think. I won't contest the observation that Mellow Dogs get louder as you go up the upper register, and they do this more than some other whistles (they do it less than some, too).

This, by the way, isn't intentional. There are other features I would have to sacrifice if I were to try to overhaul the way those top notes play, though I've been able to adjust them somewhat with the tube design. Overall, I've built in a combination of characteristics that creates a certain personality of whistle. It isn't possible to simply specify exactly how you want each note to sound and play and then set it up. Rather, some things change along with the things you're intending to change, and you have to search for the overall balance of characteristics you like best.

Now regarding the two quotes I've put at the beginning of this post: One element of the fact that each note will accept a range of breath pressure without breaking can be that a player may not realize how much control they have over the way each note sounds.

If you push every note, you will get the tone without breaking, for the most part, but you won't necessarily get the sweetest sound available for that particular note. Some delicate breath control still pays off, even though it may not be as strictly necessary as with a whistle that breaks up more easily.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[Cayden]

Some delicate breath control still pays off, even though it may not be as strictly necessary as with a whistle that breaks up more easily.

That's certainly true but I was trying, in a roundabout way, to address the fact that some people's complaints about certain whistles stem from less developed breath control and that some whistles, including some tweaked ones, counter that by allowing for 'the big wind'. Which comes at a price but seems to please many here.

[Jerry Freeman]

Some delicate breath control still pays off, even though it may not be as strictly necessary as with a whistle that breaks up more easily.

That's certainly true but I was trying, in a roundabout way, to address the fact that some people's complaints about certain whistles stem from less developed breath control and that some whistles, including some tweaked ones, counter that by allowing for 'the big wind'. Which comes at a price but seems to please many here.

Understood.

It's not just allowing for more push, by the way, that's involved here. I get a sweeter, cleaner sound from the middle D and the E, F# and G above it. That's what I would sacrifice if I tried to overhaul the very top notes. As I said, I've been able to balance those top notes better with the change in tube design.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[raindog1970]

For some reason, a Mellow Dog whistlehead plays quieter on a key of C tube, right up to the top notes of the upper register. This remains a mystery.

That's just a matter of whistle physics, specifically the length-to-bore ratio.
The Waltons Mellow D tube has the same bore size as a standard C tube.
While it's still within acceptable boundaries, that bore size is pushing the upper limits for a D tube.
When you push the upper limits of the acceptable length-to-bore ratio, the uppermost notes require more push, which also makes them louder.
I still use that bore size for D+ whistles, because the extended C foot requires a bore size that is functional for standard C whistles.
Otherwise, you run into the opposite problem of pushing the lower limits of the acceptable length-to-bore ratio, which makes the lowest notes require gentle breath pressure, which also makes them quieter.
I also still make regular D tubes with that bore size on special request, but only with the understanding that the uppermost notes will not be as sweet and easy to blow as they normally would be.
It's true that you can adjust the hole sizes and positions to make a tube that functions better than a standard Waltons Mellow D tube, but <b>"ye cannae change the laws of physics!"</b>

[MagicSailor]

Hi

This topic was locked while I was writing a reply to it last night. Now that it is open again, here is what I wrote yesterday:

I'm going to have to add another comment here, which is to say, I'm very uncomfortable with this thread.

Here's a customer, describing a problem that's extremely uncharacteristic of the whistle he's playing. The maker has asked him to return the whistle for diagnosis, and he's agreed to do so.

Dear Jerry, I have never played any of your whistles, but I have wanted to since the first time I heard of them. I have never heard anything but positive reports. I mean, never, ever until now! That is most unusual for any product of any kind. Your customer service also stands head and shoulders above most, though good customer service is not so uncommon in the whistle world.

That said, I do not think there are many players on this forum (yourself included) who would be happy with just one whistle. I am confident that you will fix the mellow dog to Cullivan's satisfaction. I am also confident that he would be happy with a Dixon Trad and a Thornton and a number of other whistles to compliment it. Which of my many whistles I play depends on the setting, whether I'm playing solo or with others, my mood and the price of rice in Calcutta, but lately it has been the Thornton more often than not. If he'd just make a three piece model to fit in my pocket...

PS. Very happy today because I just figured out that now that I have a fridge on the boat, I can have hot chocolate with whipped cream.... (And my girlfriend is coming in two weeks.)

Regards,

Owen Morgan

Yacht Magic
Anchored in the lagoon, St Maarten

My new blog.
Click here for my latest reported position. (Use the satellite view.)

[Cullivan]

Jerry has offered to take a look at my Mellow Dog and I decided to take him up on it, though some of the whistles reccommended sound quite appealing for their own merits.

I feel I should go into a bit more detail- I own several whistles: many inexpensive ones, two tweaked, and a few $50-ish brand name whistles that you occasionaly find at Sam Ash or random music stores. Most whistles I have played seem to have a tendancy to require extra air pressure after F# in the second ocatve in order to play in tune, and the change in volume and purity of tone is noticable to the player, if not the audience. What I'm looking for is a whistle in which these qualities are as slight as possible.

I mean no offense to Jerry- I have confidence he will be able to modify my whistle successfully. The Mellow Dog has been my primary whistle in and out of seishuns for over a year. When I first got it I wasn't even skilled enough to play extended passages in the upper register. It was only after tackling a few Bergin arrangements that the second octave became of key importance to me.