Middle D fingering

[Bothrops]

I was wondering...
I also play whistle, and on it, I sometimes play the middle D "venting" the top hole, and sometimes not.
I know that it's better that I always finger it 0XX XXX, but I can't.
On the flute I try to do it that way, but a lot of times I finger it XXX XXX.
Do everyone finger it 0XX XXX always? Am I doing it very wrong?

Thanks,
Martin

[Nanohedron]

Do everyone finger it 0XX XXX always? Am I doing it very wrong?

No, and I don't think so.

This is only hearsay, but I believe the "received pronunciation" from Comhaltas is that one vents the D always, at least if you want to get anywhere in competition. Fine as far as it goes, but A) it can sometimes be difficult (but maybe not impossible) to make certain transitions come off cleanly with that fingering, and B) there are tonal color possibilities with the nonvented middle D that I personally like. So I use both.

[bradhurley]

No, both ways of fingering are perfectly fine, and I know several great flute players who never vent that top hole when playing the middle d.

It really depends on your flute. If you hear a difference with the top hole vented and you prefer the way it sounds, then vent it. If not, don't bother. I can hear a significant difference on some flutes (clearer, less muffled), but on others it's not noticeable.

One selling point of venting it is that you have fewer fingers to move when going from D to C-natural, but beyond that I can't think of any great benefits, other than the tonal quality.

[jemtheflute]

The answer is much the same as for whistle. oxx xxx is the basic, standard fingering, strongest, clearest toned and best intonation on the vast majority of instruments and should be your base line that you habituate yourself to as the primary fingering in almost all circumstances, to or through which you should be able to pass easily in any note/fingering sequence after due practice.

However, there are times, as with many other fingerings, when you may desire the different tone colour offered by the unassisted 1st harmonic you get by overblowing xxx xxx, or, just possibly, to simplify certain particularly awkward fast fingering changes. Sufficient practice and good hand position/flute hold allowing proper relaxed flexibility should make the latter unnecessary with time, and it's probably best to practice NOT doing it until you achieve full fluency with oxx xxx, so that you then make a definite choice for positive reasons to use the alternative rather than use it as a cop-out (when finding things a little difficult) which could marr real progress. That principle could be extrapolated to other similar situations.

[Nanohedron]

...it's probably best to practice NOT doing it until you achieve full fluency with oxx xxx, so that you then make a definite choice for positive reasons to use the alternative rather than use it as a cop-out (when finding things a little difficult) which could marr real progress.

Good point, and good advice.

[Guinness]

Ditto. I can't agree with "I can't".

[Nanohedron]

Ditto. I can't agree with "I can't".

Me too. Someone says, "I can't do it," and I'm right there with, "Tut-tut. You can't do it YET."

[cocusflute]

No, both ways of fingering are perfectly fine, and I know several great flute players who never vent that top hole when playing the middle d.

Really, is there any more that needs to be said?

[daiv]

i think that it is a good idea to be able to do both, and chose which one you want to do depending on the situation. i think i pretty much always vent the note. my uncle says that he prefers the sound of it closed. it's a matter of preference.

i do want to say that in no situation is it impossible to vent d! in flute playing there are always alternate fingerings, to make things easier, but alternate fingerings make things easier, not possible. for example, it is fully possible (and not too difficult) to make a clean jump to the c natural key on a wooden flute from a d with the first finger vented--it just takes some practice.

[Bothrops]

No, both ways of fingering are perfectly fine, and I know several great flute players who never vent that top hole when playing the middle d.

Really, is there any more that needs to be said?

That leaves me laid-back. I don't want to be an unsuccessful player...

[Bothrops]

Thank you everyone.

You're very right, I'm sure that I "CAN" do it if I practice it, but I don't really want to spend months in learning all the tunes I know again doing the vented middle D if it's not strictly necessary.
As I said, I'm TRYING to think about it when I play, and I practically vent it always in the slow airs and waltzes, but in jigs/reels/hornpipes, in the a same tune, I vent it or not "randomly"..

[LorenzoFlute]

but I don't really want to spend months in learning all the tunes I know again doing the vented middle D if it's not strictly necessary.

just leave the tunes you already know, play them as you're used to, but it's a good idea to learn the new tunes with the vented middle D

[upooper]

midi
midee
middle D

xxxxxx d
oxxxxx d flavored, tonally different, more fun.
oxxoxx c of a flavor
oxxoox c of a flavor
|ooxxx c of a flavor with the "|" instead of "o" for half hole
oxxooo c
oxoooo c of a sort
oooooo c sharp
ooooox c sharp
ooooxx c sharp
oooxxx c sharp
ooxxxx kinda odd
oxxoxx another c natural
oxxxxx vented d
xxxxxx
xxxxx|
etc...

The more ways to play a note, any note the better. They all set up other options, uses and textures. Choice depends more on the note before or after, as far as which d you choose, but experiment.

ie

xxxxxx d
"may" likely be better when going to
xxxxx| (d#)

Flute, whistle, to an extent pipes as well as other instruments work in similar manners. Guitar has various choices to play a D open stringed, 5th fret A string, 1O fret, I think on the E string.

The string diameter is different for each string and there's tonal body as well as opportunity in having flexibilities in your fingering and not just in tone. So the more ways to play a note shouldn't be seen as a headache for beginners, espesically, but as a challenge in appling fingerings to tunes.

In a sense it's syntax, word order or in this case fingering ordering. To a degree this is where accent, regional style, nyah, pronunciation and other analogies between language and music coalesce.

[Akiba]

What I think many players I admire including Matt Molloy do is use the XXXXXX middle D to achieve a hard, spanking honk/bark to great effect in tunes (track 12 of MM's Heathery Breeze, tune is Spoil the Dance, for example). I've just starting to experiment with this and love it when it works...another crunchy bit to add to the tool box. I do this a couple of times in my Out on the Ocean clip, though since it's played at a slower pace, I don't spank as hard as I do at when I'm playing the tune faster and with more push. The rest of the time, I use OXXXXX.

Jason

[pancelticpiper]

What I think many players I admire including Matt Molloy do is use the XXXXXX middle D to achieve a hard, spanking honk/bark to great effect in tunes (track 12 of MM's Heathery Breeze, tune is Spoil the Dance, for example).

Jason

Exactly!!!! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Spank that middle D!

The old Irish guy who I learned a lot of my fluteplaying from ONLY played the closed middle D, as did my first teacher.

It's that percussive honking D that I'm after.