James Becker new whistle maker review

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:09 pm

Yes Jim, I know very well what the perception is. I also know I have never seen evidence to convince me there's any reasonable ground for that perception. As far as I know we've been on about this for donkey's years and as I said, no reasonable evidence to the contrary will ever convince you so let's not go there again, I can pull up enough quotes to support my point, including those from Jerry saying I had no problem at all with a whistle he thought unplayable. Let's leave it for another year or two as I said above, it's been well covered and barely relevant to this thread.

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:54 pm

I think (danger, danger) that the perception is based largely on the view that 'not perfect' is not good enough.

I have a few less than stellar Gens, but I also have some excellent ones. Far less spent on all of them put together, than on any my 'higher end' whistles. That said, I do still prefer my other whistles.

Ceili_whistle_man · Post by **Ceili_whistle_man** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:03 am

Jim Stone wrote:

The perception that D Gens are often 'garbage' (a word used
onboard to describe them)
is widespread.

Just what is it that qualifies people to have this perception? Calling a whistle 'garbage' out of hand is, IMHO, an easy cop out.
I have been playing the same Gen D for the last 20 years. I bought it straight off the shelf and have done nothing to it apart from a bit of 'Blue-tac' under the blade of the fipple. I have tried many whistles in the past, remember I said tried not bought, and after trying these I saw/still see no reason to give up my Gen D.
I bought a batch of four Gen D's a few years back and I must admit they were not good players. But as for 'garbage', no. I was able to make two of them playable, ( sorry, that should be better players ).
The problem was when the four whistles were lined up side by side, the tone holes on two of the whistles were at least 10mm further down the tubing than what they should be. I thought at first that Eb length tubes had been fitted with 'D' transfers. All four tubes were the same length so I can only assume there was some sort of production error.

Peter Laban wrote:

Yes Jim, I know very well what the perception is. I also know I have never seen evidence to convince me there's any reasonable ground for that perception.

Yes Peter I agree, it is only a perception, and as for reasonable grounds for that perception, you and I know there are none. If I was to say that all the top end whistles that I have tried were garbage I would be laughed at and ridiculed by the substantial numbers of folk who play designer whistles and think they are the 'bee's knees'.
I think the 'garbage' and 'unplayable' (unplayable? puuuleeease!!!) tags are thrown about by people who wouldn't know how to get a 'Tune' out of it's wrapper!!!

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:47 am

You know, I added to the perception back in the day. When I first found this board, I'd tried three cheap whistles (at most one of them was a Generation) and a Glenn Schultz Water Weasel. The cheapies were an endless source of frustration for me, the Schultz played like a dream, and I wasn't afraid to let people know that.

But in the years since then, I've played plenty of cheapies that work just fine, and expensive whistles that are garbage, IMO. The latter were, strictly speaking, playable -- one was hopelessly bland, the other not nearly responsive enough to play dance tunes. Both brands heavily praised on the C&F.

RonKiley · Post by **RonKiley** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:31 am

I have whistles cheap and whistles dear but the one I play most is a Feadog that I have had for about 5 years. It cracked and I repaired it with super glue and tape. It sounds great. It plays much better than I do. In my car I have a Gen Nickel D and a Gen Eb brass. While waiting I play along with CDs, usually Joanie. They are as good as any. Play what you like but don't claim you have to spend a fortune to get a good whistle.

Ron

jb75 · Post by **jb75** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:47 pm

Hello Whistlers---quite a stormy conversation going on about my whistles etc. The reviewer above seemed to like my whistles alot, and I appreciate that. I have learned a lot on CnF--a great place! I suppose my pricing is the main point of contention/interest. The more I learn, the longer I take making them, so not sure if my prices even make sense to me now. . .but I am having fun and people are whistling, so that's good. I had no idea my whistles would be up against $200 whistles for comparison---and I have no thoughts that mine are that good, but I am doing my best to make them sound good. Thanks all, James Becker

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:05 am

quite a stormy conversation going on about my whistles

If there was anything stormy here, it was not about your whistles.

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:53 am

Superlatives should be avoided in characterizing whistles, or for that matter, in any kind of review. Unfortunately people are bivalent. It's either one or five stars, love it or hate it, great or garbage, black or white.

(Maybe there was something to that "linguistic determinism" mumbo jumbo).

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:52 am

I now own about 100 whistles (and regularly play about 5), including high low and mid range cost; I once had more but sold, traded or gifted them. In the last twelve years or so, I've come across 4 whistles that I'd really call unplayable garbage - 2 were high enders, 1 mid, 1 cheapie. One of the high enders was replaced by the maker. This does not include re-voicing to preferences even when seriously out of balance. Draw your own conclusions if any. (I never bothered to conclude anything).

Philo

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:55 am

In what regard were they unplayable/garbage? One of the quasi-high-end whistles has a sharp Cnat with oxxooo fingering. Is that whistle garbage?

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:41 am

Guinness wrote:In what regard were they unplayable/garbage? One of the quasi-high-end whistles has a sharp Cnat with oxxooo fingering. Is that whistle garbage?

No, I mean unplayable in the entire upper octave and met with grimaces from excellent players and teachers alike at the time; when I say unplayable I mean unplayable, period. It went back, was acknowledged by maker as such, and replaced. It was so bad that maker gave up efforts to re-voice and just made an entire new whistle. I would add that this was very uncharacteristic for this or any other maker at that level. (But in my experience for cheapies as well)

The other was an early whistle of a maker known in those days for great variance in the playability and quality of the whistles. I purchased several from a retail shop (different keys) - one was great, one was okay and one was absolutely lifeless. That was a long time ago, these were harder for me to play then having a great more backpressure than I was able to deal with then and I assumed it was me. Later I realized it wasn't me; I ultimately threw it into a sale gratis and the recipient confirmed that it was indeed something that never should have left the shop.

The mid range whistle was made by a maker no longer active whose whistles IMO were generally inferior to cheapies but yet received praise here. One of the models was better suited to combat; I was actually able to play it, but others who tried were less successful; it was a chore and loud and screechy when mastered at all in the upper octave and whispy and weak in the lower - so to me that gets it the "unplayable" tag; why bother, when you can pick up most any cheapie and it'll behave well enough.

If people, like me, just love whistles and the music, and like to collect and play, want to pay more money for something well crafted and beautiful, that's fine; but for me, if it doesn't also have certain threshhold playability and tonal qualities, why bother? The latter remains the most important aspect to me.

I'm really not referring to blowing whistles into tune, extra embouchure effort, increased attention to breath control, or different ways of getting the c natural - those are preferences and technique related; I really mean unplayable. I'm surprised you asked me; I thought it was clear from my earlier post that through 12 years of playing hundreds of different whistles, I only came across 4 that were really unplayable. Generally, I agree with Peter, because of my experiences and because it makes sense that mass produced whistles (unless there are bad toolings, etc which would likely be changed prior to release) are probably less risky when it comes to unplayable. Things happen to individual makers at various times and once in a while a single terrific custom maker can have a serious gaffe in quality control.

And yes, having to do contortions, blow your diaphragm out your a--hole, or any other such super human efforts required to get sound from a whistle, in my book renders it "unplayable."

Philo

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:35 am

If G. was picking out the Sindt, as I think he is, I don't think I have ever heard any good player complain about it's C natural. C natural is a note you have to adapt and curl around anyway. There's never the one push-the-button-and-there-it-is Cnatural. The player is responsible for the intonation (within reason, and the Sindt D whistles' C natural is well within that).

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:00 am

jim stone wrote: Sorry, I was talking only about the Gens. Here I stand by what I said.
I've bought maybe four in the last several years and they
are indeed squawkers. Other cheapies (e.g. Oaks, Clares,
Clarks) are better. Also
there is a definite sense the Gens have descended--in
the late 70s and early 80s, they were sweet items.
My impression is that the design got changed for
the worse and, also, the company stopped caring.

The Bbs Gens are better. The Ds not. On other
cheapies, outside of the sweetone, there is often
a lot of inconsistency. Some are fine, others
not. Clarke classic whistles can be lovely, for instance,
but sometimes way to breathy. I start
trying to narrow the windway.

So yes, unplayable, generally, Gens are, I say, unless tweaked.
Jerry Freeman's efforts make the Gens close
to what they used to be.

Hmmm. I haven't been buying whistles for that long (about 10 years now, I guess), but my experience is very different. Generation Ds used to be a little iffy, but in the past five years I haven't bought or played a bad one. Bbs on the other hand used to be always good, and I've had a few duds there in the last few years. But overall, Generations are good and reliable imho. If someone tells me that they think Gens are generally unplayable, I would suspect they haven't mastered the basics, in particular breath control, on the whistle.

Sure there is the occasional unplayable cheap whistle - at least in the sense that I don't want to play it. But frankly the percentage of unplayable designer whistles is much higher, at least among the many I have tried.

Guinness · Post by **Guinness** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:35 am

I've found that each and every whistle I've ever owned or borrowed, cheap or pricey, has it's own "quirks" and requires some adaptation on my part. There were whistles that I had thought were poor from the outset only to find them quite enjoyable later on, and vica versa. Plus we don't know if any of the aforementioned whistles were acquired used and modified by the previous owner (a common practice I suspect) or simply suffering a bad case of 3-year old gunk. All this just underlines the variability of user testimonials, whether that'd be correlative of the player's abilities or the instruments themselves.

But we all knew this already. So what is the problem? So what if the cheapies keep getting dissed and the pricey's achieve undeserved mythical status? Blah blah blah. I'm not about to impose a personal ban, but myth-busting gets tiring and boring after a while. And for whatever reason, a FAQ has never been developed.

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:40 am

Isn't this all a personal choice thing.
There are many ways to play a whistle, look at some of the top names out there and how differently they play.
I really don't think it matters what whistle someone plays, as long as they, and others enjoy what they are playing. Who cares what whistle they are playing it on? It's the joy of hearing good music that counts.

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