The Burke is dead, long live the what?

Byll · Post by **Byll** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:04 am

I am sorry for the untimely death of your Burke. I own and have played many Burkes, and never had one that was not spot on, concerning intonation. Maybe the poor thing was ashamed, and jumped...

Nah...

Best.
Byll

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:32 am

This is a can of worms I have long avoided wanting to open. But here goes.

There are all kinds of tuning issues with all kinds of whistles. Spend some time with an electronic tuner if you want to know what I mean.

for example, what note do you use (on a D whistle) to "get in tune" with the rest of the group? Most whistles low and middle D are off substantially using a normal amount of breath (normal meaning not consciously having to over or underblow). Yes, I know some of you will pounce on this statement and point out that of course you micro-adjust, but there really is an acceptable amount of adjustment which you can do and then there is an unacceptable amount that you will never achieve playing fast. Many just play fast and accept the intonation variances and get their ears used to it.
The other issue is whether you cover the top hole on the middle D. You are usually admonished to leave it uncovered, but I have always found it (covered) to be a better sounding note, but it's a bit sharper, as I recall.

We're treading on the even-versus-traditional scale stuff here, I would add, and your background (especially in classical music) and other instrument abilities count for a lot. If you have played on a well-tuned piano for much of your life, you are going to have to make some real adjustments to a wind instrument, much less one with non-even tempered tuning.

How did your whistle builder tune the scale? Mike Burke states clearly that his whistles are not even-tempered as I recall. So your choices of which note to consider the best for tuning would be affected by this.

I am at work so I can't do the comparison and give specifics now. but a month ago, I took a Burke brass pro D, a Reyburn D and my newest whistle, a Sindt silver D and played various notes into the tuning machine. I found the Sindt to be the closest on the low and middle D using some kind of "normal" amount of pressure. And I think (forgive me, like I said, I don't have the whistles in front of me) that the Sindt might be a little more even-tempered than the others. The trade-off with Sindt seems to be that Cnatural often mentioned here. I actually like the slightly sharp C nat from cross fingering the Burke (especially on the Old Bush for example), but it's too far off on the Sindt for my ears. Remember Breathnach's description of a C natural as being "halfway between the B and D"?

When I was in a band, I used the Aluminum Pro D Burke, but in retrospect, I always played it sharp and kind of "ruined" my ears doing so, meaning that, when I tuned it to an electronic tuner (as opposed to by ear), it sounded flat, even when the other instruments were in tune with the same tuner. I think your ears and brain get used to things all too easily and you accept them as right after a while, especially when you play alone a lot.

I think Dana noticed how out of tune that particular whistle was at our various whistle parties. Mind you, I loved the whistle, but began to wonder how much pain I was inflicting on others with it, always an unpleasant prospect, if he was noticing it (mangling tunes is another whole set of issues, I might add).

I really do love some of my Burke whistles, especially the Eb pro session brass, which is a damn near perfect whistle, but I think, at this point, that the Sindt D works best with guitars and pianos and such. But it has its own drawbacks as well.

And really, I still do not know what the best note to tune the whistle to an electronic tuner is. I wouldn't mind hearing others' comments about how they tune up (if not just by ear).

PS. Please don't ever say "Burke is dead," okay?? Use the word whistle. I freaked out....

scheky · Post by **scheky** » Thu May 08, 2008 12:14 pm

You too Weeks? I jumped when I saw the title.

When I tune my whistles, I tune the A note (or in the case of other keys, the note that's produced by holding the top two fingers on my left hand down). That tends to give me the best overall tuning across the whistle.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu May 08, 2008 12:18 pm

scheky wrote:You too Weeks? I jumped when I saw the title.

When I tune my whistles, I tune the A note (or in the case of other keys, the note that's produced by holding the top two fingers on my left hand down). That tends to give me the best overall tuning across the whistle.

I will give that a try, thanks!

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:04 pm

And it's not just high end whistles that are lamented by their loss. I had an Oak that I loved and the head cracked irreparably. I was pretty bummed. I have finally gotten attached to another Oak after two or three tries and I keep it in the case with my Burke.

syn whistles · Post by **syn whistles** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:22 pm

You clearly need a wooden whistle, one with a relative density of less than 1.0.

jloug · Post by **jloug** » Thu May 08, 2008 4:19 pm

Why don't you edit the title of your post to indicate you are talking about your Burke whistle, not the man. Say, "Burke whistle......."
It's too creepy as it is.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu May 08, 2008 5:06 pm

On both flute and whistle, I get one of the box players to give me their G, then I tune to G in the first octave, then check it against the second octave, then check it against middle D to make sure that all three are as close to beatless as I can get them.

I can't speak for anybody else's Burkes, but I have three, and they are all very well in tune and very easy to play in tune. Your mileage may vary.

--James

Tucson Whistler · Post by **Tucson Whistler** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:09 pm

narrowdog wrote:Hi
Maybe you should have a look at a 'Thornton' whistle by Tommy Martin,

Its my favorite, nice trad sound and you won't have a 6 month wait

Cheers

I agree. Thorntons are awesome. I'd go with that or a Hudson. The Hudson is louder. Both are very pure and the Thornton is just sweet.

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Fri May 09, 2008 6:34 am

Try a Humphrey!

I love mine.

By the way, from your title, I thought you meant Michael Burke is dead(!). I'm glad to discover that it's not the man, it's the whistle.

Dana

Post by **Nanohedron** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:36 am

I edited the thread header to add the definite article which should be there because A) it customarily is present in this stock phrase-form which normally is applied to titles (like "king"), not names (like "Cuthbert"); B) "Burke" in this case becomes a sort of title, so it all works; C) it's misleading without the "the", and, well, creepy; and D) while breqwas' English is pretty darned good, it ain't perfect (whose is?), and I'm sure he'd find the correction welcome.

I'm sure no bad taste was intended.

CranberryDog · Post by **CranberryDog** » Fri May 09, 2008 2:35 pm

I would suggest a Reyburn wide bore session or an Overton. Either can be leaned into without going sharp. Good luck, Cyril.

hoopy mike · Post by **hoopy mike** » Fri May 09, 2008 6:45 pm

maybe a wooden one? (they float)

breqwas · Post by **breqwas** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:24 am

Elpollo, money is not an issue, but the time is. I'm not sure these $500 will live long if I do not spend them right now :) And I don't expect that Mitch's Oz tour to be much faster than Abell's waiting list :)

ElPollo · Post by **ElPollo** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:38 am

breqwas wrote:Elpollo, money is not an issue, but the time is. I'm not sure these $500 will live long if I do not spend them right now And I don't expect that Mitch's Oz tour to be much faster than Abell's waiting list

Ask Mitch which whistles he'd be interested in trading for. Then buy that one and play it until the Oz arrives, and offer the trade if you like his?