Why do we want a Mac?

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:09 pm

I've been using Macs for about 18 years, I think I've counted up that between work and home I've had 17. These have included desktops, laptops, lab computers, pro and consumer models. In that time I've had to re-install the system twice, and onc of those times it was a hardware problem (the notorious capacitor problem that was publicized when it was in Macs but affected many more PC's). In addition to that problem, I've had two other hardware problems, one on a cheap refurb, the other one on a three-year-old iMac. I've never had any trouble upgrading hardware, nor transferring files from one to the next.

I've had two PC's. One is about one month old, and I've already had problems with it -- software wouldn't run, not because of a problem with the software, but a problem with Windows that required a patch that for some reason hasn't been included in any of the regular updates, but is available from the MS downloads page. The other is maybe a year and a half old, and we had to re-install the operating system twice in the first six months, I'm not sure how often since.

For me having a computer that works and requires no babysitting is worth the extra money. If money is tight, it may not be worth it.

Tyler · Post by **Tyler** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:31 pm

I have one of each...

they're just tools people, shhheeesh.

this is like arguing over f**king craftsman and snapon fercryssakes!!

if all you aare is a basic computer user with limitedx to basic computer skills, and you're not going to be doing any networking over, say, five mac clients at a time on your apple based network, or anything like that, ,ake your fashion statement and git yerself a mac!
jayhsuslawdalmighty.

i fyou are an advanced user and know how to make your tool do what you want it to do when you want it done, use a frakin PC.
I'm no fan of vista, as i have bmade clear on several occasions, but ther's no way I'd be able to do my job on a mac. thats just the way life is, ms has the advanced acceptance in the market, therefore the majority of what's out there is ms based
etc, etc, on and on...jimgordonwept....

what gripes the hellouttame is, even being a mac owner myself, that the mac fans i know have to resort to name calling (see previous post in this thread for an example) instead of understanding exactly why they supposedly like their macs over my pcs (other than the popularity involved in being part of the "mac-cult"), regardless of the fact that I can use both platforms in circles around them. most "militant mac owners" have no idea about exactly how thier computers work, they just parrot technological stats and facts they've heard along the way and think they're being techno-savvy.

I've never had anything bad to say about macs, or most mac users for that matter.
they're good tools and they serve a purpose for a certain segment of computer users, but they just don't serve my needs. they're not invulnerable (certainly not to the degree that 'militant mac owners" think they are, see the hack of the macbook at cansecwest this year for just such an example) and they're not perfect.
If I want perfection, or as close as i can get, I use pcs, because I know how to make them do what I want them to do when I want them to do it, plain and simple. its not so simple to do what I can do with a pc on a mac, ergo my choice to use pc.
call me a weener if you want; it just shows me your true colors.

rhulsey · Post by **rhulsey** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:06 am

Paul - I don't think you'd be disappointed if you got the Mac. I bought my first one in 1988, and it's all I've used since with one exception: I now have a 24" iMac, and for the couple of PC support clients I have, XP runs in Parallels so I can answer their questions.

That said - if they used Macs and not PC's it would take a considerable chunk out of my income!

Reg

tansy · Post by **tansy** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:39 am

I asked a close friend this same question the other day and she said you don't need a mac unless you are doing a lot of graphics. She owns a publishing house. I just bought an "entertainment notebook PC". that's what I use it for, mainly music, videos, surfing and SKYPE calls.
I guess it depends on what you want to do with it. To get what virtues I have in this PC it would cost more than twice as much for the MAC.Also a desktop would be worthless to me, I have to have portable, wireless and 12 volt.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:59 am

Tyler--was it a tough night for you?
I'm looking for the name-calling post you're referring to and not finding 'em.

Fwiw, (which isn't much,) I have more or less adapted to bumbling my way around either platform. The PCs have given me a few more headaches, but it may merely be that I am more familiar with Macs, in general, and have more of a learning curve when troubleshooting the PC.

It is not infrequent that one or the other goes kaflooey and I resort to researching the Mac problem on the PC and vice versa.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Sat May 03, 2008 2:58 pm

emmline wrote:Tyler--was it a tough night for you?
I'm looking for the name-calling post you're referring to and not finding 'em...

Actually, perhaps I could take credit for flaming on this thread, on my first post where I said, "Pay no attention to these Microsoft weenies. Go Mac!" Now, if you look around the 'net, especially on tech oriented sites, it simply won't take long to find similar such flames, as part of a long running flame war between Mac users and PC users, yet as a war which goes somewhat tongue in cheek, one which amounts to a friendly rivalry, and one which most of the participants don't seem to take altogether seriously.

The model for that statement I took from Toto, from the Wizard of Oz, something like, "Pay no attention to that Microsoft weenie behind the curtain!"

;-)

Edit: Oops! I wrote screen, when I should have written curtain.

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sat May 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Look at this month's Consumer's Report - Apple is way, way above everyone else in tech support on their products.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sat May 03, 2008 3:22 pm

Cork wrote:
emmline wrote:Tyler--was it a tough night for you?
I'm looking for the name-calling post you're referring to and not finding 'em...
Actually, perhaps I could take credit for flaming on this thread, on my first post where I said, "Pay no attention to these Microsoft weenies. Go Mac!"

Well dang. A perfectly serviceable flame and I missed it.

ElPollo · Post by **ElPollo** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:33 pm

anniemcu wrote:Look at this month's Consumer's Report - Apple is way, way above everyone else in tech support on their products.

Which is another way of saying mac users need the most support.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:04 pm

ElPollo wrote:
anniemcu wrote:Look at this month's Consumer's Report - Apple is way, way above everyone else in tech support on their products.
Which is another way of saying mac users need the most support. :lol:

On the contrary, Mac users get the support they need, but Microsoft already knows that theirs is a hopeless case!

:-D

scheky · Post by **scheky** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:54 pm

Though I'm not in any way telling you not to get a Mac if you want one, there is one part of this thread that's making me almost wet myself laughing.

Cork my lad, you are quite the unixphile. However, did you know that in the last three security tests run by CERT, the Mac has shown to have more vulnerabilities than XP or Vista? Are you aware that Linux in its constant state of flux, opens more virus and trojan vulnerabilities than any other OS (especially buffer overruns)?

Now, the Linux community manages to fix and patch things as fast as they can find them, and that's why Linux remains relatively untouched. Apple, however is very lax in patching the open source portions of its OS, which are many, even when vulnerabilities are found. They are actually more than 10 times slower than MS when it comes to fixing known vulnerabilities.

The big difference is that the majority of people are running Windows, so the majority of malicious software is attacking Windows. There is less profit in running a trojan on any other OS, as there are less targets. Heck, the IPOD was the best backdoor into any commercial network that a hacker could ask for.

However this is changing. The last year, hacker conferences are almost purely how to crack into a Mac. Apple will be having a rough time in the near future unless they give a serious change to the way they handle things.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:40 pm

scheky wrote:Though I'm not in any way telling you not to get a Mac if you want one, there is one part of this thread that's making me almost wet myself laughing.

Cork my lad, you are quite the unixphile. However, did you know that in the last three security tests run by CERT, the Mac has shown to have more vulnerabilities than XP or Vista? Are you aware that Linux in its constant state of flux, opens more virus and trojan vulnerabilities than any other OS (especially buffer overruns)?

Now, the Linux community manages to fix and patch things as fast as they can find them, and that's why Linux remains relatively untouched. Apple, however is very lax in patching the open source portions of its OS, which are many, even when vulnerabilities are found. They are actually more than 10 times slower than MS when it comes to fixing known vulnerabilities.

The big difference is that the majority of people are running Windows, so the majority of malicious software is attacking Windows. There is less profit in running a trojan on any other OS, as there are less targets. Heck, the IPOD was the best backdoor into any commercial network that a hacker could ask for.

However this is changing. The last year, hacker conferences are almost purely how to crack into a Mac. Apple will be having a rough time in the near future unless they give a serious change to the way they handle things.

LOL!

It's understood that Apple is primarily a hardware company, and unfortunately Apple apparently has largely ignored its OS language, perhaps because until more recently Apple has had only a small fraction of personal computer market share. However, lately Apple has gained market attention, and market share, and subsequently has now become more of a hacker's target, which means that Apple can no longer afford to ignore any security "holes" in its OS.

Given the outstanding arrogance of Mr. Turtleneck, moreover, I suspect that Apple will recognize their vulnerabilities, and will respond in kind.

Besides, I have supreme confidence in Unix, of which Apple's OS language, BSD, is a derivative, and that alone gives Apple a great head start.

And, I'll stand behind every claim I have made about Mac computers, for they indeed are good, at least so far.

However, speaking as one who runs both a Mac and a PC, I'm willing to keep both eyes open.

That is, in the end, who could have the better proprietary OS, Mac, or PC?

;-)

chrisoff · Post by **chrisoff** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:18 am

anniemcu wrote:Look at this month's Consumer's Report - Apple is way, way above everyone else in tech support on their products.

That's just because they get more practice!

Thomaston · Post by **Thomaston** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:12 am

The tech support may be good, but it comes with a price. Their protection plan, which costs $299, "extends your computer's 90 days of complimentary support and one-year warranty to up to three years of world-class support."
As much as I like Macs, this is my biggest complaint. Seems like tech support would be free, since I'm already paying twice as much as I would for a similar PC.
I bought a $500 Mac Mini when it first came out, and actually had a CSR with Apple get rude with me when I didn't want to pay $300 for tech support on a $500 computer.

chrisoff · Post by **chrisoff** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:23 am

Thomaston wrote:The tech support may be good, but it comes with a price. Their protection plan, which costs $299, "extends your computer's 90 days of complimentary support and one-year warranty to up to three years of world-class support."
As much as I like Macs, this is my biggest complaint. Seems like tech support would be free, since I'm already paying twice as much as I would for a similar PC.
I bought a $500 Mac Mini when it first came out, and actually had a CSR with Apple get rude with me when I didn't want to pay $300 for tech support on a $500 computer.

The electronics industry (especially the retail part of it) makes a huge amount of it's profits from selling people insurance they don't need. When I worked in electronics retail most of our focus was on upselling (making people buy things they couldn't afford) and selling insurance (making people give us money for a service they're never likely to need). I hated it, thankfully I was only there to cover the christmas rush.

Most electronics fail within the warranty period. You don't need to buy the insurance! (aside from mobile phones which have a tendency to be stolen or dropped in things. For example, my phone managed to fall out of my pocket into a cup of bovril at a recent football game)