Manzanita- a suitable timber for whistle building?

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:38 am

shadowformz wrote: Also has anyone on the forum have access to, or know where i could get a small blank of Arizona Rosewood aka "desert rose" (Vauquelinia californica), i would love to swap a piece for a couple rare Aussie blanks if anyone is able n willing.

I don't have Arizona Rosewood. I do have some Eastern Red Cedar grown in Texas for a swap? It is used for making NA flutes.

shadowformz · Post by **shadowformz** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:45 am

I don't have Arizona Rosewood. I do have some Eastern Red Cedar grown in Texas for a swap? It is used for making NA flutes.[/quote]

Thanks for your offer Tommy, but i'm really only after the Arizona Rosewood, so if you do happen to come across a piece in the future please keep me in mind, thanks Brad.

michael_coleman · Post by **michael_coleman** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:31 pm

I gave a very large log to Jon C. We let it dry for a year in Southern California, but it split too much to make anything of it. Ask him though as I don't know all the details. He would be good to ask anyway since he makes these things anyway.

shadowformz · Post by **shadowformz** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:46 pm

michael_coleman wrote:I gave a very large log to Jon C. We let it dry for a year in Southern California, but it split too much to make anything of it. Ask him though as I don't know all the details. He would be good to ask anyway since he makes these things anyway.

Thanks Michael, i'll get in touch with him and see what he can come up with

.

Trurl · Post by **Trurl** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:16 pm

Manzanita is pretty fine looking wood, so you've got a guaranteed win there.

As for splitting problems, you can borrow a leaf from the shakuhachi community (japanese bamboo flutes) and bind the whistle. Most high class shakuhachi have bindings (thread, linen, fishing line, etc.) at strategic intervals. Might help keep the thing together.

shadowformz · Post by **shadowformz** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:48 am

Well as i promised i took the plunge and purchased the Mazanita block from ebay and here it is prior to me butchering it. As you can see by the matchbox its a very sizable piece and arrived without a single crack in it, blemish free with the exception of two soft spots at either end, it sure is lovely looking timber.

Here's a pic of the pieces i won back from the half log.

And know its into the linseed bath for emtor's linseed drying technique. I think'll leave them under for about four weeks to just be on the safe side, as the timber is very green. Cant wait to see what the results turn out like, the oil makes the manzanita glow like jewels.

I'll keep you posted, Brad.

Jetboy · Post by **Jetboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:29 am

highwood wrote:Just checked out those links - I guess just filling the cracks/voids is another approach

You could try powdered brass mixed with a clear resin. This, when cured and polished with the rest of teh whistle looks just like solid brass.

saw it done on a table top that was made from a slice through a tree root. Looked stunning.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:05 am

emtor wrote:so Manzanita is hard to dry?
Does this mean that it splits easily when you dry it?
You could try to seal the end-grain with wax or paint to prohibit splitting, or try this trick:
Buy virgin cold-pressed flax-oil (linseed oil), and immerse a piece of wood in it for a couple of weeks.
After a couple of days you'll notice a cloudy substance in the bottom of the jar, which is water that the oil has pushed out of the wood.
Since oil has replaced the moisture in the wood it won't split.

I'm not sure where you heard this, but it is simply not true, for a variety of reasons. There simply is no practical substitute for the proper curing of wood.

Regarding this Manzanita project, seems like a lot of trouble to go to make a whistle that is 95% or more likely to crack. It always puzzles me that new makers will disregard the available information that a particular wood is prone to cracking, just to make something that will be pretty, but not stable. Ditto on the whole issue of taking the proper length of time to season the wood.

Perhaps the consumer should be blamed though, as everyone seems keen to buy the latest eye candy and as quickly as possible, regardless of how long their lovely new whistles are likely to last before cracking.

Loren

shadowformz · Post by **shadowformz** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:39 pm

I'm not sure where you heard this, but it is simply not true, for a variety of reasons. There simply is no practical substitute for the proper curing of wood.
Loren[/quote]

Woops sorry i didn't clarify myself Loren, i do still intend to let the timber cure after the oil bath, and as i'm only intending to use the Manzanita whistle for myself, it dosen't matter if it turns out a flop. I have a ball working with all manner of different timbers and trying new things out, its how i have fun

. P.S If i can make a whistle for myself that looks half as good as that flute Walden pointed to on ebay i'll be very happy, cheers.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:02 pm

shadowformz wrote:I'm not sure where you heard this, but it is simply not true, for a variety of reasons. There simply is no practical substitute for the proper curing of wood.
Loren

Woops sorry i didn't clarify myself Loren, i do still intend to let the timber cure after the oil bath, and as i'm only intending to use the Manzanita whistle for myself, it dosen't matter if it turns out a flop. I have a ball working with all manner of different timbers and trying new things out, its how i have fun

. P.S If i can make a whistle for myself that looks half as good as that flute Walden pointed to on ebay i'll be very happy, cheers.[/quote]

Fair enough, and certainly, have fun with it.

A suggestion then, for what it's worth: Air dry first in the future, and then do the oil bath. You'll typically get better results this way.

Loren

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:04 pm

My 2 cents...

Manzanita and other fragile hardwoods can be used in another form. Pen Blanks. These "stabilized" hardwood blanks can be "glued-up" into appropriate sizes for whistle making. No curing, post turning or environment problems. These blanks come in many fun acrylic "fakes", like Ivory/Turtle Shell/Glass/Pearl etc. too.

By "gluing-up" blanks you can create an internal "pilot hole" by shaving an inner corner on selected blanks. This will allow a screw-headed auger bit with steady rest, to bore a nice clean strait hole.

highwood · Post by **highwood** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:04 pm

A suggestion then, for what it's worth: Air dry first in the future, and then do the oil bath. You'll typically get better results this way.

Never tried it so I should just shut up! but Manzanita is not a typical wood and if you air dried it the result I believe would be a very checked/cracked chunk of wood.

I'm eagerly awaiting the results, of course we might not know for a year or two so I'm not holding my breath.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:42 pm

emtor wrote: I'll even bet the wood will turn better on a lathe after being saturated with oil.

Actually, short of using pressure, or possibly submersing the wood in oil for years penetration into the wood is quite shallow. One can easily test this by taking a piece of wood out of the oil and then turning a bit off on the lathe. If you haven't tried this, you may be quite surprised to find how little the oil actually penetrates into the wood.

Loren

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:51 pm

highwood wrote:
A suggestion then, for what it's worth: Air dry first in the future, and then do the oil bath. You'll typically get better results this way.
Never tried it so I should just shut up! but Manzanita is not a typical wood and if you air dried it the result I believe would be a very checked/cracked chunk of wood.

I'm eagerly awaiting the results, of course we might not know for a year or two so I'm not holding my breath.

I'm lucky, I didn't have to learn by trial and error: I had the benefit of working at a shop that has been making historic woodwinds for over 40 years and has produced 10,000 + instruments from a wide variety of woods over that time span. What I learned is that if a wood is going to crack during a proper air seasoning process (which takes years), then dunking it in some oil first isn't going to help.

Again, fwiw, however I seriously doubt ymmv.

Loren

shadowformz · Post by **shadowformz** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:09 pm

I'm lucky, I didn't have to learn by trial and error: I had the benefit of working at a shop that has been making historic woodwinds for over 40 years and has produced 10,000 + instruments from a wide variety of woods over that time span. What I learned is that if a wood is going to crack during a proper air seasoning process (which takes years), then dunking it in some oil first isn't going to help.

Again, fwiw, however I seriously doubt ymmv.

Loren[/quote]

No doubt you'll probably be proven right Loren, but i think it'll be still fun to try anyway. i'll leave all the pieces in the bath for four weeks and then pull a blank out and sit it in the shed where it can cure/dry slowly. I think'll leave the rest in the bath until i see whats happening, and yeh it's probably a good idea not to hold your breath highwood, i figure it'll be nine months minimum before i poke any holes in these first blanks, let alone the others