What to do in the mean time?

[Derkk]

I got a violin instructor set up for May 5th, our first session. It's 60 bucks a month, 30 minute sessions, four of them. Anyone think I'm getting ripped off?

He says we'll start off learning a few early tunes and that'll be it. He'll show me where to place my fingers and I'll leave there knowing how to play a very unharmonic Mary had a Little Lamb and practice at home.

So, in the mean time, would I be doing IRREPAIRABLE DAMAGE TO MY VIOLIN SKILLS by just fiddling around on it and having fun until I can see my instructor?

I ask, because I am frequently told that playing alone creates bad habits.

[Redwolf]

I got a violin instructor set up for May 5th, our first session. It's 60 bucks a month, 30 minute sessions, four of them. Anyone think I'm getting ripped off?

He says we'll start off learning a few early tunes and that'll be it. He'll show me where to place my fingers and I'll leave there knowing how to play a very unharmonic Mary had a Little Lamb and practice at home.

So, in the mean time, would I be doing IRREPAIRABLE DAMAGE TO MY VIOLIN SKILLS by just fiddling around on it and having fun until I can see my instructor?

I ask, because I am frequently told that playing alone creates bad habits.

I think you're getting a reasonable deal. And while just noodling around probably won't cause too much harm, I'd wait until you see your instructor before doing any serious work.

Redwolf

[anniemcu]

I would think that scales with just your fingers should be pretty safe. Your ear will learn something, and your bowing won't be in the picture, so you can't develop much of a bad habit.

[Tweeto]

Sixty bucks for 2 hours of instruction is a good deal. I don’t know if 30 minute lessons, one every week, are effective though. That seems to be the standard for mainstream music lessons but then, why should adults be given a lesson plan that’s geared for children? I’ll bet they also charged you “signup and deposit” fees.


Pardon this hihacking of the thread, but I have a question that someone knowledgeable might know:
I currently play flute and know at least 100-150 tunes that I can perform on it. I want to start getting fiddle instruction, because the one time I rented a fiddle with the purpose of learning on my own, I wasn't able to make any musical notes with it. Should I start off taking lessons, with the same instructior whom I might later take lessons with after I've progressed to where I can play my tunes, or should I start off with a mainstream violin instructor until I can bow properly and then go to the fiddle instructor?

[Derkk]

Allow me to hijack it back, haha.

Bowing properly? Could anyone be more specific about this?

Is it aligning the hairs onto the strings perfectly? Or is it the motion? Or is it EVERYTHING all in one, a perfect bowing?

By the way, I play the violin and not the fiddle, just to clear it up. I know this is a fiddlers forum, but I like it here.

[anniemcu]

Allow me to hijack it back, haha.

Bowing properly? Could anyone be more specific about this?

Is it aligning the hairs onto the strings perfectly? Or is it the motion? Or is it EVERYTHING all in one, a perfect bowing?

By the way, I play the violin and not the fiddle, just to clear it up. I know this is a fiddlers forum, but I like it here.

Do you mean you already play the violin, as opposed to just taking up the fiddle?

They are one and the same instrument, though the styles in which they are set up, and played can differ widely (and the 'discussions' of what is 'authentic, proper, correct, acceptable, best', etc. can get downright heated!).

From observation, and from a very few lessons long ago, I would say it is the whole enchilada - position of the bow, arm, wrist, hand, even fingers, that can make or break bowing technique. That said, violinists tend to be trained in a pretty standard form, while you will see fiddlers use so many different styles, it'll make your head spin.

[hyldemoer]

By the way, I play the violin and not the fiddle, just to clear it up.

By that statement I'm assuming you're making a statement about what kind of music you would like to play?

No matter.
Between now and your first lesson, my advice is for you to make a list of your favorite tunes, or pieces of music.

I would also advise you to make a list of your favorite violinists and/or fiddlers.

Those two lists will give your teacher an idea of what direction you want to take your music. Perhaps he can figure out easy versions of your favorite music? If they're melodies you already enjoy, they'll be easier to grasp and memorize.
Chances are you'll be inspired to practice them more.

I count listening to music as an honest and necessary part of my musical practice.
Taking that a step farther is dancing and singing along (example = la la boom da, didily daaaaah). Dancing will help you learn timing. Both dancing and singing will take the melody out of just your head and put it in the whole of your body.

Violin/fiddle is played with the whole of your body. It is very athletic.

And on that note, do you practice hatha yoga? If not, you might look into classes or at least get a good book on the subject.
(In Yehudi Menuhin's book, "The Complete Violinist", he outlines what asanas he found valuable as a violinist along with lots of other advice.)
There's an asana called "downward facing dog" that was and still is very valuable as a warm up stretch before and a straighten out my body stretch after practice.

Enjoy the adventure.

[dubhlinn]

So, in the mean time, would I be doing IRREPAIRABLE DAMAGE TO MY VIOLIN SKILLS by just fiddling around on it and having fun until I can see my instructor?

I ask, because I am frequently told that playing alone creates bad habits.

Ha,
At the moment you don't have any skills to damage.

Here's a tip or two from somebody who, after thirty five years or so, is getting a grip on it.

Pick it up and stick it under your chin, keep the bow about halfway between the bridge - the wooden thing that the strings sit on - and the end of the fingerboard..that's the long black thing that comes down the middle.

Now at this point, opinions vary.
My suggestion is to stand upright with the fiddle close enough to 90 degrees to your neck with your weight on the left foot - assuming you are right handed - and move the bow up and down over a string of your choice. When you get a clear note..something that actually sounds like a fiddle, move over to the next string and do it again, and again until you feel comfortable with the bow grip, the stance and the sound of the four strings. They do not have to be in tune at this point.

Ignore the pain in your wrist - which should be in a straight line from the elbow to the fingerboard. Never let your wrist go into the ninety degree angle to the arm that it wants to go to..classic mistake.

At this point you should be able to knock out four clear - as in non scratchy, cats being tortured slowly to death notes. None of which need to be in tune with each other at this stage. I have repeated that point because it is all about stance and grip now ..not tunes.

Now go to your class and learn where the fingers fall, bearing in mind that there are two schools of fiddling.

One of those schools - the one where technique is all - have produced some world class musicians.
The other school - self taught - has also produced some world class players.

I have always believed that a little bit of classical training - especially about bow technique - is a great asset..but it ain't the be all and end all.

Most important of all, of course, is to listen to as much ,and as many players and styles as you can get your hands on.

It starts in the heart, finds its way to the mind, and then works its way down to the fingers..that's where it gets tricky.

Good luck with your journey.

Slan,
D.

[awildman]

Sixty bucks for 2 hours of instruction is a good deal. I don’t know if 30 minute lessons, one every week, are effective though. That seems to be the standard for mainstream music lessons but then, why should adults be given a lesson plan that’s geared for children? I’ll bet they also charged you “signup and deposit” fees.


Pardon this hihacking of the thread, but I have a question that someone knowledgeable might know:
I currently play flute and know at least 100-150 tunes that I can perform on it. I want to start getting fiddle instruction, because the one time I rented a fiddle with the purpose of learning on my own, I wasn't able to make any musical notes with it. Should I start off taking lessons, with the same instructior whom I might later take lessons with after I've progressed to where I can play my tunes, or should I start off with a mainstream violin instructor until I can bow properly and then go to the fiddle instructor?

Get a fiddle teacher. A classical violin teacher cannot teach you the heart and soul of (Irish) Traditional music. A fiddle teacher can(if you can learn it), and that is more valuable than anything you might learn technique-wise through violin lessons. Mainly the bowing wrist. But there are many differences that do not translate well from one to the other, ornamentation and tone, to name two.

Addendum: This is the same to me as learning classical flute before Irish flute. Not necessary, and many things just don't translate.

[buddhu]

I'm kind of in the same situation.

After a lot of research and advice from various teachers and stores I have ordered a violin. It should be here by the weekend. I have yet to decide on a teacher, as I'm trying to find someone who will teach less formal styles as well as classical because I hope to be able to nail some ITM, bluegrass and jazz, given time and practice. If the worst comes to the worst, I'll go with a classical-only teacher to begin with.

I've got hours of video tutorial material downloaded from the web, and the promise of a DVD from a friend who has given up trying to learn fiddle, so
I was also wondering if it's safe to start self-tutoring/experimenting before having any proper lessons.

If I can just learn to play John Sheahan's marvellous 'Prodigal Son' and 'Marino Casino', and a couple of Bill Monroe songs I'll be well pleased.

The Hot Club stuff might take a bit more work!

[Loren]

I got a violin instructor set up for May 5th, our first session. It's 60 bucks a month, 30 minute sessions, four of them. Anyone think I'm getting ripped off?

Depends:


If the instructor is good, that's a freakin' steal: I pay $50+ for 1 30min trad flute lesson, which is quite fair, considering the quality of instruction I receive.

OTH, if instructor is not a very good teacher, then it's a waste of money.

The quality of musical instrument instruction can vary widely, so too then does the value of lessons.



Loren

[buddhu]

I have just spoken to a violin teacher who does classical and jazz, and folk fiddle. Even better, she is less than a mile from my office, so I can get tuition in my lunchtime.

Cost is comparable to the teacher Derkk has booked.

Can't wait! I'll try to book a lesson or two for next week.

[Ro3b]

Get a fiddle teacher. A classical violin teacher cannot teach you the heart and soul of (Irish) Traditional music. A fiddle teacher can(if you can learn it), and that is more valuable than anything you might learn technique-wise through violin lessons. Mainly the bowing wrist. But there are many differences that do not translate well from one to the other, ornamentation and tone, to name two.

Addendum: This is the same to me as learning classical flute before Irish flute. Not necessary, and many things just don't translate.

I respectfully disagree. One thing the classical world has that the folk/trad world doesn't is an established system of pedagogy wherein you can learn the best ways of operating the machine. Whereas many-if-not-most trad teachers I've encountered don't have much of a clue about teaching basic technique.

IMHO the best thing to do is to find a good classical violin teacher who is sympathetic to your eventually wanting to play Irish music, or (better) a fiddler with a classical background.

[hyldemoer]

One thing the classical world has that the folk/trad world doesn't is an established system of pedagogy wherein you can learn the best ways of operating the machine. Whereas many-if-not-most trad teachers I've encountered don't have much of a clue about teaching basic technique.

IMHO the best thing to do is to find a good classical violin teacher who is sympathetic to your eventually wanting to play Irish music, or (better) a fiddler with a classical background.

Then there's the new breed of fiddlers coming up whose parents had them start with Suzuki shortly after getting potty trained, not long after that they were dragged around to just about every session their parents could find within driving distance, and then spent every summer of their childhood at some fiddle camp.

They're in their late twenties or 30 something now, graduated from university with a degree in performance or recording technology and oh my gosh are they good at it all.

Ya know, we're not talking about getting a tattoo.
Geesh! I've had several fiddle teachers in the past several years. They all know each other. They have absolutely no problem telling me when the others are offering a workshop.

I look at it like getting my car fixed. If I haven't a clue what's going on I start with the cheap and easy fixes first.
If the issues aren't resolved I work my way out as convenience and expenses allow.
Don't forget to have fun. Enjoy the adventure.

[awildman]

Get a fiddle teacher. A classical violin teacher cannot teach you the heart and soul of (Irish) Traditional music. A fiddle teacher can(if you can learn it), and that is more valuable than anything you might learn technique-wise through violin lessons. Mainly the bowing wrist. But there are many differences that do not translate well from one to the other, ornamentation and tone, to name two.

Addendum: This is the same to me as learning classical flute before Irish flute. Not necessary, and many things just don't translate.

I respectfully disagree. One thing the classical world has that the folk/trad world doesn't is an established system of pedagogy wherein you can learn the best ways of operating the machine. Whereas many-if-not-most trad teachers I've encountered don't have much of a clue about teaching basic technique.

IMHO the best thing to do is to find a good classical violin teacher who is sympathetic to your eventually wanting to play Irish music, or (better) a fiddler with a classical background.

I agree with much of that. But all things being equal, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. If one wants to unlearn some classical habits later, that is what will happen. The same as if somebody switches from trad to classical. Perhaps I should qualify my above comments with "good fiddle teacher."