djm
Manufactured meat-at least it isn't Soylent Green
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djm
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I had to laugh. I was reading an article earlier today about how, in order to get a gun license, men in the Punjab have to get a vasectomy - and it works! Whereas only a few would get a vasectomy before, they are now lining up for vasectomies just to get their names into the pool for the very limited number of new gun licenses that come available each year.
djm
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
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Ronbo
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A good war would take care of that problem in far less time.buddhu wrote:Deej is right.
There are too many of us. The human population needs reducing to a fraction of what it now is. The world needs humans to adopt drastic birth control measures or to have a serious pandemic.
Anyone who doesn't have kids is doing the world a big favour.
Harsh reality.
Yet how much time and money have we wasted trying to save peoples and countries who have overpopulated and underproduced themselves into what should be a complete collapse. If we want to follow your suggestions, buddhu, we should just leave them to their own fates, not prop them up, and up, and up. Population control with half the effort. I, like you, am all for population control, just not MY part of the population. All you guys go ahead and depopulate. I'll do my best to keep my genetic material in the mix, thanks.
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Nanohedron
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Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
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buddhu
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No.Ronbo wrote:A good war would take care of that problem in far less time.buddhu wrote:Deej is right.
There are too many of us. The human population needs reducing to a fraction of what it now is. The world needs humans to adopt drastic birth control measures or to have a serious pandemic.
Anyone who doesn't have kids is doing the world a big favour.
Harsh reality.
Yet how much time and money have we wasted trying to save peoples and countries who have overpopulated and underproduced themselves into what should be a complete collapse. If we want to follow your suggestions, buddhu, we should just leave them to their own fates, not prop them up, and up, and up. Population control with half the effort. I, like you, am all for population control, just not MY part of the population. All you guys go ahead and depopulate...
We should not leave "them to their own fates". We should send aid and make genuine efforts to help. There but for undeserved good fortune any of us were born.
We should promote policies of birth control and population decrease - not just for "them", but for us too.
We should shake ourselves free of the harmful influence of capitalist economics with its emphasis on growing markets and increasing consumption.
Of course you will. That is the unthinking, mindless, evolutionary imperative expressing itself in you as it is supposed to....I'll do my best to keep my genetic material in the mix, thanks.
What may save the world is if some of us use the intelligence that has enabled us to step out of the usual cycle of natural selection. If, rather than succumbing to dumb instinct, we recognise that we need to use our intelligence to limit our expansion to balance the fact that we have used it to defer the natural pressures that control populations.
And deferring is all we've done. We haven't beaten nature. Eventually, when climate change and the mismanagement of food policy produce the results that they surely must, then starvation and war will indeed limit the population.
I'd rather see it done voluntarily by rational means or, at worst, by a natural event that is no one's fault.
To insist on reproducing under these circumstances is, IMO, to become a victim of evolution rather than the pinnacle of it.
I hope the generations of gene carriers you produce still have a survivable world to live in.
Disclaimer: this way of thinking occurred to me far too late for me to practice what I preach. I have three children and three grandchildren who I love.
That said, if I had seen the light when I was younger, I honestly believe that I would have planned to have one child at most.
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
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buddhu
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Apologies, I only just realised that we're not in PROCT. If anything I posted is inappropriately political then I happily invite moderation.
Ta.
Ta.
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
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Ronbo
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No apologies needed budd. this one was destined for a proctological finish anyway, no matter how it came about. So I decided to help it on its way.
In any case, I bet on war, not starvation. The minute certain countries decide they are hungry enough and have little to lose, we will be up to our necks in small wars.
I agree with your statement that we are postponing things. However, in your depressive prediction (how did global warming become global climate change? The climate has been constantly changing for millenia, and it has bee far hotter and far colder than it is now), you state that it is all going to come to the same end anyway. So why not just let it happen as it is doing right now? You seem to want everybody to die of a broken heart crying for those who have habitually been in this state. When they do manage to form a government, it is communist/fascist/dictatorial, and just destroys the country by either civil war, or just plain ineptness.
Also, most tellingly, you deny the fact that actual change could happen to avoid the disaster. I am optimistic that the ultimate collapse doesn't need to happen now. Things can be changed, and improved, but keep the damned governments out of it. Their collective record (particularly communist) has been deadly and dismal in this area. If we do have the collapse that you are predicting, it will be the faults of the governments, not the individuals.
In any case, I bet on war, not starvation. The minute certain countries decide they are hungry enough and have little to lose, we will be up to our necks in small wars.
I agree with your statement that we are postponing things. However, in your depressive prediction (how did global warming become global climate change? The climate has been constantly changing for millenia, and it has bee far hotter and far colder than it is now), you state that it is all going to come to the same end anyway. So why not just let it happen as it is doing right now? You seem to want everybody to die of a broken heart crying for those who have habitually been in this state. When they do manage to form a government, it is communist/fascist/dictatorial, and just destroys the country by either civil war, or just plain ineptness.
Also, most tellingly, you deny the fact that actual change could happen to avoid the disaster. I am optimistic that the ultimate collapse doesn't need to happen now. Things can be changed, and improved, but keep the damned governments out of it. Their collective record (particularly communist) has been deadly and dismal in this area. If we do have the collapse that you are predicting, it will be the faults of the governments, not the individuals.
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dubhlinn
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buddhu wrote:.
We should shake ourselves free of the harmful influence of capitalist economics with its emphasis on growing markets and increasing consumption.
Agreed, with passion and conviction.
Shame it didn't work out the last time it was tried.
Slan,
D.
And many a poor man that has roved,
Loved and thought himself beloved,
From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.
W.B.Yeats
Loved and thought himself beloved,
From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.
W.B.Yeats
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buddhu
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You know, I like that post. What you say describes a valid perspective.Ronbo wrote:No apologies needed budd. this one was destined for a proctological finish anyway, no matter how it came about. So I decided to help it on its way.
In any case, I bet on war, not starvation. The minute certain countries decide they are hungry enough and have little to lose, we will be up to our necks in small wars.
I agree with your statement that we are postponing things. However, in your depressive prediction (how did global warming become global climate change? The climate has been constantly changing for millenia, and it has bee far hotter and far colder than it is now), you state that it is all going to come to the same end anyway. So why not just let it happen as it is doing right now? You seem to want everybody to die of a broken heart crying for those who have habitually been in this state. When they do manage to form a government, it is communist/fascist/dictatorial, and just destroys the country by either civil war, or just plain ineptness.
Also, most tellingly, you deny the fact that actual change could happen to avoid the disaster. I am optimistic that the ultimate collapse doesn't need to happen now. Things can be changed, and improved, but keep the damned governments out of it. Their collective record (particularly communist) has been deadly and dismal in this area. If we do have the collapse that you are predicting, it will be the faults of the governments, not the individuals.
But it's not for me. I'm not really a sit back and let it happen type.
It would be easy to take that view: I live in one of the comfy countries. I'm not starving, and with luck neither will my kids. The consequences of my letting it happen will probably be mostly borne by poorer people or future generations before any of it really hurts me or mine.
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
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buddhu
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Time for another go then, Ddubhlinn wrote:buddhu wrote:.
We should shake ourselves free of the harmful influence of capitalist economics with its emphasis on growing markets and increasing consumption.
Agreed, with passion and conviction.
Shame it didn't work out the last time it was tried.
Slan,
D.
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
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dubhlinn
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buddhu wrote:Time for another go then, Ddubhlinn wrote:buddhu wrote:.
We should shake ourselves free of the harmful influence of capitalist economics with its emphasis on growing markets and increasing consumption.
Agreed, with passion and conviction.
Shame it didn't work out the last time it was tried.
Slan,
D.
It's gettin' that way Bro.
Slan,
D.
And many a poor man that has roved,
Loved and thought himself beloved,
From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.
W.B.Yeats
Loved and thought himself beloved,
From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.
W.B.Yeats
Yeah, one of us in the US = something like 17 of them in India. If anybody should be lining up for vasectomies for guns it's us.buddhu wrote:We should shake ourselves free of the harmful influence of capitalist economics with its emphasis on growing markets and increasing consumption.
I didn't have children. But my sister had 4. There goes my efforts.
~ Diane
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
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Sober Sam
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So, after reading page 1 of this thread about artificial meat (yuck) I skipped pages 2 and 3 and got right to page4 in order to post my comment on the topic, just to find how dramatically the topic has changed.
I read in the newspaper the other day, that experts are expecting hundreds of thousands of people dying from hunger over the next few years. As if that wasn't sad enough, the reaon for that isn't that there isn't enough food around - the reason is, that the prices for such basic things as bread are rising so high, that people in third world countries simply can't afford to buy them anymore. Imagine that! The bread is around but people can't afford it. Why?
Because gas is getting more expencive. And in order to make bread, you need wheat and in order to produce wheat, you need machinery and in order to run that machinry you need... Bingo! GAS! Why is the price going up? Because we need so much. Taking the car to go shopping, taking the kids to school, to go for dinner etc.
Also there is a new demand in agriculture for plants that can be used to produce Bio fuel. So, instead of growing foor, people are growing fuel. Which also causes the price for wheat to rise.
Are you asking yourself what my point is? My point is: There is so much more than enough to eat for everybody. The problem is, that we in the "western world" rather throw food away than sharing it. What's happening in our part of the world on a small scale - the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer - is also happening on a large scale worldwide. I could go on forever...
Let me just add this. Every great culture in history, such as the greek, the romans, the ancient chinese, Egypt etc. has gone through the same development. They reached an incredible standard of knowledge and technology, but the smarter they got, the dumber they acted. And the upper class got so far away from the working class, that the working class rebelled and ultimately destroyed everything, thus leading to the end of the culture. And we are headed straight that way. Only this time the working class isn't part of our countries population, it's an entire part of the world (how many products "made in china" do you own?). Personally I still hope that we learn from history and act smarter this time, but right now it's not looking too good....
And I just wanted to post a snotty remark on artificial meat...
I read in the newspaper the other day, that experts are expecting hundreds of thousands of people dying from hunger over the next few years. As if that wasn't sad enough, the reaon for that isn't that there isn't enough food around - the reason is, that the prices for such basic things as bread are rising so high, that people in third world countries simply can't afford to buy them anymore. Imagine that! The bread is around but people can't afford it. Why?
Because gas is getting more expencive. And in order to make bread, you need wheat and in order to produce wheat, you need machinery and in order to run that machinry you need... Bingo! GAS! Why is the price going up? Because we need so much. Taking the car to go shopping, taking the kids to school, to go for dinner etc.
Also there is a new demand in agriculture for plants that can be used to produce Bio fuel. So, instead of growing foor, people are growing fuel. Which also causes the price for wheat to rise.
Are you asking yourself what my point is? My point is: There is so much more than enough to eat for everybody. The problem is, that we in the "western world" rather throw food away than sharing it. What's happening in our part of the world on a small scale - the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer - is also happening on a large scale worldwide. I could go on forever...
Let me just add this. Every great culture in history, such as the greek, the romans, the ancient chinese, Egypt etc. has gone through the same development. They reached an incredible standard of knowledge and technology, but the smarter they got, the dumber they acted. And the upper class got so far away from the working class, that the working class rebelled and ultimately destroyed everything, thus leading to the end of the culture. And we are headed straight that way. Only this time the working class isn't part of our countries population, it's an entire part of the world (how many products "made in china" do you own?). Personally I still hope that we learn from history and act smarter this time, but right now it's not looking too good....
And I just wanted to post a snotty remark on artificial meat...
Why do people use aluminum to put beer in it, if you can make whistles out of it?
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Nanohedron
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Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
New here, aren't you.Sober Sam wrote:So, after reading page 1 of this thread about artificial meat (yuck) I skipped pages 2 and 3 and got right to page4 in order to post my comment on the topic, just to find how dramatically the topic has changed...*snip*...And I just wanted to post a snotty remark on artificial meat...
"If you take music out of this world, you will have nothing but a ball of fire." - Balochi musician
an snotty!Nanohedron wrote:New here, aren't you.Sober Sam wrote:So, after reading page 1 of this thread about artificial meat (yuck) I skipped pages 2 and 3 and got right to page4 in order to post my comment on the topic, just to find how dramatically the topic has changed...*snip*...And I just wanted to post a snotty remark on artificial meat...
We do prefer slobbery!