Recent conversations I have had with board members and others have led me to believe that 'I just can't get it right.' I seem to have some warped sense of phrasing and am apparently unable to play in the traditional style. I listen to lots of players on a variety of instruments, yet get the feedback constantly that my phrasing is weird. This board has been helpful and supportive, yet I still feel absolutely deflated. I do play out at the occasional sessions, but granted, the playing levels are a crap shoot. I try and attend higher level sessions, if for no other reason, just to soak up the technical abilities of the players. Sorry, just needed to rant.
Arbo
What do you do when you're...
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ImNotIrish
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What do you do when you're...
Last edited by ImNotIrish on Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ronbo
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Re: What do you do when you're...
The answer is written in your avatar.ImNotIrish wrote:Recent conversations I have had with board members and others have led me to believe that 'I just can't get it right.' I seem to have some warped sense of phrasing and am apparently unable to play in the traditional style. I listen to lots of players on a variety of instruments, yet get the feedback constantly that my phrasing is weird. This board has been helpful and supportive, yet I still feel absolutely deflated. I do play out at the occasional sessions, but granted, the playing levels are a crap shoot. I try and attend higher level sessions, if for know other reason, just to soak up the technical abilities of the players. Sorry, just needed to rant.
Arbo
Can you play along at the higher level sessions? If you can, it'll probably come around. Osmosis takes time. On the other hand, if you want to feel bad about yourself, go on over to the mustard board, and let them jump all over you. When you get back here, your spirits will be restored.-
ImNotIrish
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connie
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I always found nothing like playing with a good player to help improve your rhythm and phrasing. Not so much these days but a few years ago I used learn some tunes notes would be right and I'd think they sounded grand. The when trying to play the tunes with a helpful good player, I'd find my rhythm wasn't as good as I thought. I think the osmosis does kick in, iafter 3-4 sessons playing the tune with the good musicians I found I started to get more in sync with the proper rhythm.
So I think try and find a good player who will play a few of your tunes with you either privatley or at a session see if that helps/
This is all based on the premise you have some nice patient good musicians. Not someone who'll blow you out of it or up the tempo on you if your playing a bit slower than the usual session place.
Another thing to consider is speed, if you slow the tune down does the rhythm improve ?
So I think try and find a good player who will play a few of your tunes with you either privatley or at a session see if that helps/
This is all based on the premise you have some nice patient good musicians. Not someone who'll blow you out of it or up the tempo on you if your playing a bit slower than the usual session place.
Another thing to consider is speed, if you slow the tune down does the rhythm improve ?
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peeplj
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My thoughts:
First, try to find a teacher. If you already have a teacher, talk this over with them. A teacher can be a world of help.
Also, and this is important, stop talking with people who make you feel bad about your music. They may think they are giving you help or constructive criticism, but even if their intention is only the best, well, isn't the road to Hell supposed to be paved with good intentions?
If they have you so discouraged that you are starting to believe that you simply can't learn to play it right, then stop talking with them about it, because they aren't helping you.
Unfortunately, there are musicians who feed their own ego on this--musicians have the reputation of being a breed that eat their own young, and there is an uncomfortable amount of truth in that old joke.
In particular beware those who point out all the problems in your playing but who cannot offer a word of advice on how to fix any of it. Conversely, beware of trusting folks who are too quick to give advice, especially on the Internet. Again, this is where a teacher can really help.
Try to find a learner-friendly session. Sometimes there will be house sessions or "slow sessions" where one or two advanced players help folks pick up tunes and work on the foundations like rhythm and phrasing. While not a substitute for a good teacher, this can still help you with learning the tunes, and it can also provide reassurance that you're not the only one who still needs help.
Don't put yourself into a "playing contest," especially not with folks who are further down the road. When you compare yourself against a very advanced player, it's easy to get frustrated and discouraged.
Something else that can be pretty important: take a break. When you are tired and frustrated, set it down for a couple of days and re-energize.
Listen to all the music you can...but if you are getting frustrated on flute, now may not be the best time to play through the Woodenflute Obsession CDs.
Try listening to some fiddle, or box, or whistle. Let your ears and mind have a rest from fluting for a bit.
Besides, I know from experience, if you are having trouble with rhythm and phrasing, listening to a really good box player can really help.
On the same note, when you are playing in or watching a session, if there is a good box player, watch his hands. It may sound bizarre, but you can learn a lot about the rhythm of these tunes by watching a box player's hands.
But whatever you do, don't give up. Nearly everyone learning an instrument goes through periods of dispair when they are ready to just give it up. They got past it, and you can too.
Best wishes,
--James
First, try to find a teacher. If you already have a teacher, talk this over with them. A teacher can be a world of help.
Also, and this is important, stop talking with people who make you feel bad about your music. They may think they are giving you help or constructive criticism, but even if their intention is only the best, well, isn't the road to Hell supposed to be paved with good intentions?
If they have you so discouraged that you are starting to believe that you simply can't learn to play it right, then stop talking with them about it, because they aren't helping you.
Unfortunately, there are musicians who feed their own ego on this--musicians have the reputation of being a breed that eat their own young, and there is an uncomfortable amount of truth in that old joke.
In particular beware those who point out all the problems in your playing but who cannot offer a word of advice on how to fix any of it. Conversely, beware of trusting folks who are too quick to give advice, especially on the Internet. Again, this is where a teacher can really help.
Try to find a learner-friendly session. Sometimes there will be house sessions or "slow sessions" where one or two advanced players help folks pick up tunes and work on the foundations like rhythm and phrasing. While not a substitute for a good teacher, this can still help you with learning the tunes, and it can also provide reassurance that you're not the only one who still needs help.
Don't put yourself into a "playing contest," especially not with folks who are further down the road. When you compare yourself against a very advanced player, it's easy to get frustrated and discouraged.
Something else that can be pretty important: take a break. When you are tired and frustrated, set it down for a couple of days and re-energize.
Listen to all the music you can...but if you are getting frustrated on flute, now may not be the best time to play through the Woodenflute Obsession CDs.
Try listening to some fiddle, or box, or whistle. Let your ears and mind have a rest from fluting for a bit.
Besides, I know from experience, if you are having trouble with rhythm and phrasing, listening to a really good box player can really help.
On the same note, when you are playing in or watching a session, if there is a good box player, watch his hands. It may sound bizarre, but you can learn a lot about the rhythm of these tunes by watching a box player's hands.
But whatever you do, don't give up. Nearly everyone learning an instrument goes through periods of dispair when they are ready to just give it up. They got past it, and you can too.
Best wishes,
--James
http://www.flutesite.com
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"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending" --Carl Bard
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"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending" --Carl Bard
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connie
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There something in that alright, I think it alot easier to learn playing along with someone in person than trying to play along with a recording. There definatly is a visual factor as well as an audio one.peeplj wrote:
On the same note, when you are playing in or watching a session, if there is a good box player, watch his hands. It may sound bizarre, but you can learn a lot about the rhythm of these tunes by watching a box player's hands.
--James
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Ronbo
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It's a discussion board on thesession.org. Really big into ITM, with a lot of the members of the idea that if you don't do it their way, you don't do it at all. Some here will post there, but it is a good place to get tunes (midi and sheetmusic). Some of their discussions border on proctology board flavor, but it might be a good resource. I do it mainly to read and laugh, and occasionally toss bombs at some of the posters. give it a look.ImNotIrish wrote:What's the 'mustard board'?
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ImNotIrish
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Thanks Gordon. Just as I was about to trash all evidence of my escapades!Gordon wrote:For the record, Arbo is a very impressive flute player with a unique way of phrasing. Not completely traditional, but entirely musical and original, with killer tone and volume.
Arbo, you may just have to accept that you're not a session hack. You'll learn to live with that, eventually, I'm sure.
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ImNotIrish
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Ben Shaffer
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Hey I'mNotIrish,
I listened to you play the Cramers/Harris reel on YouTube. I think your pretty good, your tone is very good.
The only thing that I think you need to work on is your timing. I didn't hear your foot tap. If you can tap your foot 4 times to the measure and let the melody just follow within and around the 4 beats you'll be fine. Start with Cramers, slower at first. This may sound basic, but tap your foot and whistle the melody and only when you can do those two things together , introduce the Flute.
Stick with just the melody and forget about ornamentation for now.
Playing in a session with good players will pull you along in a way that you can't do on your own.
Play only the tunes that speak to you
Regards,
Ben Shaffer
I listened to you play the Cramers/Harris reel on YouTube. I think your pretty good, your tone is very good.
The only thing that I think you need to work on is your timing. I didn't hear your foot tap. If you can tap your foot 4 times to the measure and let the melody just follow within and around the 4 beats you'll be fine. Start with Cramers, slower at first. This may sound basic, but tap your foot and whistle the melody and only when you can do those two things together , introduce the Flute.
Stick with just the melody and forget about ornamentation for now.
Playing in a session with good players will pull you along in a way that you can't do on your own.
Play only the tunes that speak to you
Regards,
Ben Shaffer
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G1
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Try walking in to the place brandishing a big aluminum low D whistle; not only do you get a certain amount of instant respect, but it makes them feel so relieved when you set it down in favor of a friendly wooden flute! LOLRonbo wrote:Somebody is always going to give you up, you know that. Since it is you Arbo, just buy yourself a heavy delrin flute. Carry it along with you when you play, and use it to whack anybody that has an issue with your playing. Im surprised you havent done that already.
*Playing a wind instrument is like walking with my ancestors. It's source is a timeless well.
*Don't believe everything you think... Yes, this means YOU!
*Don't believe everything you think... Yes, this means YOU!
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mahanpots
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My thoughts on sharing clips:
I feel that the feedback I got from sharing clips has lead me to address shortcomings in my playing.
My interest in posting clips is to not only hear peoples' impressions of my playing, but to affirm to myself that I play decently. When I am looking for affirmation, and I get criticism, I tend not to take it too well. I start doubting myself as a flute player.
I've gotten what feels like an equal share of comments on both my weaknesses and strengths, but sometimes I tend to get stuck on my weaknesses, thinking about them too much. When I'm doing that, I'll tend to focus on tunes I know that exhibit those weaknesses. There are plenty of tunes that I've been playing for many years that I play more proficiently, but I'll tend to share a tune that exhibits those weaknesses instead of playing a tune or set that exhibits my best playing.
The tone of this forum is all over the place, so when you share a clip, who knows the atmosphere in which it will be received, i.e. formal, informal, socially, instructionally, critically.... I'm beginning to realize that sharing a clip here is more like standing in front of a group of judges, than sitting around the living room. So, I better have my ducks in a row if I'm going to stand up and play -- and be prepared to receive some blows to the ego, if I don't.
Michael
I feel that the feedback I got from sharing clips has lead me to address shortcomings in my playing.
My interest in posting clips is to not only hear peoples' impressions of my playing, but to affirm to myself that I play decently. When I am looking for affirmation, and I get criticism, I tend not to take it too well. I start doubting myself as a flute player.
I've gotten what feels like an equal share of comments on both my weaknesses and strengths, but sometimes I tend to get stuck on my weaknesses, thinking about them too much. When I'm doing that, I'll tend to focus on tunes I know that exhibit those weaknesses. There are plenty of tunes that I've been playing for many years that I play more proficiently, but I'll tend to share a tune that exhibits those weaknesses instead of playing a tune or set that exhibits my best playing.
The tone of this forum is all over the place, so when you share a clip, who knows the atmosphere in which it will be received, i.e. formal, informal, socially, instructionally, critically.... I'm beginning to realize that sharing a clip here is more like standing in front of a group of judges, than sitting around the living room. So, I better have my ducks in a row if I'm going to stand up and play -- and be prepared to receive some blows to the ego, if I don't.
Michael
Olwell Pratten.
Paddy Cronin's Jig
Limestone Rock, Silver Spear
Blasting, billowing, bursting forth with the power of 10 billion butterfly sneezes
Paddy Cronin's Jig
Limestone Rock, Silver Spear
Blasting, billowing, bursting forth with the power of 10 billion butterfly sneezes
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Ronbo
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I say never let them know what you are thinking. Only problem with the aluminum whistle is that you can bend that bad boy.G1 wrote:Try walking in to the place brandishing a big aluminum low D whistle; not only do you get a certain amount of instant respect, but it makes them feel so relieved when you set it down in favor of a friendly wooden flute! LOLRonbo wrote:Somebody is always going to give you up, you know that. Since it is you Arbo, just buy yourself a heavy delrin flute. Carry it along with you when you play, and use it to whack anybody that has an issue with your playing. Im surprised you havent done that already.