I don't think a whistle is a 'starter instrument'.
Okay, maybe it's easier than flute and uillean pipers, but what the heck?
I started playing whistle because I love its sound and its character. I'm not interested in playing uillean pipes and I don't think I'll ever be interested, although I like to hear it, of course. The same with fiddle and concertina.
On the other hand, I'm also a 'flute learner', but that doesn't mean that I won't play whistle anymore, because although they're similar instruments, they're quite different too.
I'd like to be able to play both in a good way someday. I think they're both nice and they complement each other.
If someone descredit the whistle as an instrument, then, that person don't understand nothing.
Whistle discrimination?
-
Boody
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Iowa for home, Utah for school (BYU)
I am learning the flute and pipes because I love how they sound, but if somebody didn't want to I wouldn't think less of them. I don't think of my whistles as more beginner and I don't think I will ever grow out of them. In fact, I love them so much I have to keep them locked in a drawer when I am doing my homework so I don't get distracted.
Whistle Clips (Old, I really need to update these)
Soccer is a ball and a flat, grassy spot. Poetry is verbal rhythm and two words that sound alike (or not). Computer science is turning switches on and off. A novel is one of a dozen or so universal plot lines with a good yarn woven around it.
Fun starts with a simple premise then explores all the possible nooks and crannies.
Fun starts with a simple premise then explores all the possible nooks and crannies.
The Walrus
What would a wild walrus whistle if a walrus could whistle wild?
The second mouse may get the cheese but the presentation leaves a lot to be desired.
What would a wild walrus whistle if a walrus could whistle wild?
The second mouse may get the cheese but the presentation leaves a lot to be desired.
-
Rob Sharer
- Posts: 1682
- Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:32 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Either NC, Co. Clare, or Freiburg i.B., depending...
I like the whistle more than most people on the planet, but maybe not as much as some of the more rabid folk here. It's great to hear in the session, but it will never bring the meat to the barbecue the way that the flute, fiddle, concertina, or accordeon does. It's just limited in terms of expression and drive as compared to these other members of the session family. As Peter said, few people in Ireland get on the whistle and stay there exclusively. After all, if you can really "go" on the whistle, what's to stop you from grabbing a flute and kicking it up a notch? Cheers,
Rob
Rob
-
Azalin
- Posts: 2783
- Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Montreal, Canada
- Contact:
Yeah the 'problem' with the whistle is that it's a cheap instrument and very easy to get, so you get tons of 'whistlers wannabe' around. It seems to me that people tend to play the whistle without mastering it properly. It happens with all instruments, but it seems to me it's happening a lot more with the whistle... and because it's such a high pitched instrument, it can go on your nerves quite easily.
I think also one of the reasons why most musicians don't stick to the whistle is that it's very hard to lead a set and have the same leadership with the instrument you'd have with a flute, fiddle, box, pipes, etc...
Anyway, I havent been playing for that long, but I just get the impression the whistle is a very, very nice second instrument, while people usually want an instrument with more 'potential' as their first. But playing whistle is such a treat. When I'm frustrated at my slow progress on the concertina and weak mechanics I pick a whistle and then suddenly I forget I'm holding an instrument and it's playing all by itself.
... and the sad but honnest truth is that if you want to eventually get 'respected' as a musician, at least with proficient players, don't stick to the whistle only. (and I don't mean bodhran!)
I think also one of the reasons why most musicians don't stick to the whistle is that it's very hard to lead a set and have the same leadership with the instrument you'd have with a flute, fiddle, box, pipes, etc...
Anyway, I havent been playing for that long, but I just get the impression the whistle is a very, very nice second instrument, while people usually want an instrument with more 'potential' as their first. But playing whistle is such a treat. When I'm frustrated at my slow progress on the concertina and weak mechanics I pick a whistle and then suddenly I forget I'm holding an instrument and it's playing all by itself.
... and the sad but honnest truth is that if you want to eventually get 'respected' as a musician, at least with proficient players, don't stick to the whistle only. (and I don't mean bodhran!)
-
Cayden
I don't think anyone has any doubts about how well established the whistle is in Irish music.Peter, I am sure you are right. The whistle is a good starting instrument even outside ITM. And historically, many do move on to other instruments even here on C&F. I do think that, at a minimum, the people participating in and running this competition should know that the whistle is well established in this kind of music and that very accomplished adult whistle players do exist.
Personally, I would like to think they would notice that whistles are gaining in popularity and focus, but maybe I'm too close to it.
I don't know a whole lot about competitions other than that I think it's a silly pursuit, but these days it's something you participate in during your teens at the latest, if at all.
I don't know what it means the whistle is 'gaining in focus'. All instruments have seen a surge in popularity, I am not sure the whistle has gained more, relatively, than others.
-
pancelticpiper
- Posts: 5322
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format. - Location: WV to the OC
Seems like there are at least three related topics being discussed:
1) attitudes towards the whistle within the ITM community
2) attitudes towards the whistle held by the "general public"
3) attitudes towards Irish music and instruments, and indeed "folk" music and instruments in general, held by "legit" or so-called "classical" musicians
About the first, seems that within the ITM community the whistle was, in the "old days", regarded mostly as a stepping stone towards playing a "real" instrument such as flute, box, fiddle, or pipes. And, when old flute players lost their teeth, the whistle became the only option. As such, the whistle was mostly played by the young and the elderly.
Seems to me that it was The Chieftans that helped launch the whistle as a mainstream ITM instrument.
I myself looked down my nose at the whistle for decades. While there were fantastic whistle players, both here and on recordings, that I highly respected, nevertheless 90% of the people I ran into who played whistle were tossers looking for an easy, cheap entre into the ITM world. My attitude was that if they were serious about playing ITM they would learn how to play the flute or pipes or something. Now I know better!
About attitudes held by members of the general public, in my experience they usually respond well to the whistle. They don't know what it is, but they like the music.
About attitudes held by "legit" (or so-called "classical") musicians, that varies from person to person. There are narrow-minded and broad-minded people in every profession. Yes there a people who stick their noses up in the air and are dismissive about non-"classical" instruments and music, but for every person like that there is another who is interested in music of all sorts and is open to appreciating various "folk" instruments and music.
I happen to play in a Scottish pipe band that is chock-full with people from "classical" backgrounds. They love playing trombone (for example) and they love the brass ensemble they perform with; they also love the pipes and they love the pipe band. The wise know that music is music, and good music is good music.
1) attitudes towards the whistle within the ITM community
2) attitudes towards the whistle held by the "general public"
3) attitudes towards Irish music and instruments, and indeed "folk" music and instruments in general, held by "legit" or so-called "classical" musicians
About the first, seems that within the ITM community the whistle was, in the "old days", regarded mostly as a stepping stone towards playing a "real" instrument such as flute, box, fiddle, or pipes. And, when old flute players lost their teeth, the whistle became the only option. As such, the whistle was mostly played by the young and the elderly.
Seems to me that it was The Chieftans that helped launch the whistle as a mainstream ITM instrument.
I myself looked down my nose at the whistle for decades. While there were fantastic whistle players, both here and on recordings, that I highly respected, nevertheless 90% of the people I ran into who played whistle were tossers looking for an easy, cheap entre into the ITM world. My attitude was that if they were serious about playing ITM they would learn how to play the flute or pipes or something. Now I know better!
About attitudes held by members of the general public, in my experience they usually respond well to the whistle. They don't know what it is, but they like the music.
About attitudes held by "legit" (or so-called "classical") musicians, that varies from person to person. There are narrow-minded and broad-minded people in every profession. Yes there a people who stick their noses up in the air and are dismissive about non-"classical" instruments and music, but for every person like that there is another who is interested in music of all sorts and is open to appreciating various "folk" instruments and music.
I happen to play in a Scottish pipe band that is chock-full with people from "classical" backgrounds. They love playing trombone (for example) and they love the brass ensemble they perform with; they also love the pipes and they love the pipe band. The wise know that music is music, and good music is good music.
-
Dan Mozell
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:54 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Contact:
Re: Whistle discrimination?
Personally, if I heard someone make great music on a kazoo, I'd respect that musician as well as any other. But people do listen with more than their ears; they listen with their life experience. Nothing you can do other than to make the best music you know how.Thomaston wrote:Do any of you that exclusively play whistle ever get the feeling that people may not take you as seriously as they would if you played flute?
http://www.danmozell.com
http://www.colonialmusic.net
http://www.animalpainting.net
-
Donald
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:05 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Canberra, Australia
The comment about whistles being cheap and a first instument. In most cases yes, but i played classical oboe for seven years (not in a penguin suit as I agree with Mitch on this, the beak does get in the way) with a flute with keys as my second instrument (which i continued playing for another ten years).
The whistle is the instument i progressed to when i became good enough, and they cost more than my flute (i do have very nice whistles). I find to play well on a whistle (paticularly when trying to play classical music) is so much more difficult than on the flute and i swap to flute to hear how the song is meant to sound if im having problems.
So whistle is definatelly my first and favourite instument now. And I dont really care what other people think of me playing it (though a low D wooden whistle does look a little more impressive than a cheap gen). I mainly play with my children anyway and they love it (they play cello and violin).
The whistle is the instument i progressed to when i became good enough, and they cost more than my flute (i do have very nice whistles). I find to play well on a whistle (paticularly when trying to play classical music) is so much more difficult than on the flute and i swap to flute to hear how the song is meant to sound if im having problems.
So whistle is definatelly my first and favourite instument now. And I dont really care what other people think of me playing it (though a low D wooden whistle does look a little more impressive than a cheap gen). I mainly play with my children anyway and they love it (they play cello and violin).
-
AJTwo
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:27 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Canada
That's a remarkably wise observation. Everything is simple when reduced to its basic pattern.walrii wrote:Soccer is a ball and a flat, grassy spot. Poetry is verbal rhythm and two words that sound alike (or not). Computer science is turning switches on and off. A novel is one of a dozen or so universal plot lines with a good yarn woven around it.
Fun starts with a simple premise then explores all the possible nooks and crannies.
For the record, I play the whistle mainly because I love the sound, but also because it was easier to start to learn. I'm not very talented, and for those of us who struggle a bit musically, we can still produce a beautiful tune on it. But hats off to those who can do more, often much more.
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she's ordered the lobster." -William H. Macy.
Thanks for the replies, everyone. It's comforting to know that it's a limited group that tends to have those snobbish thoughts.
As for the idea of competitions themselves, I actually agree with what's been said here. I signed up at the last minute, and did it more to get feedback on my technique than anything. But, ranking technique in folk music does seem strange. This is the music of normal people, not the music of classically-trained musicians. It's not necessarily wrong for it to be rough around the edges. Competing in folk music, to me, tends to take "folk" aspect out of it a bit. The last thing I cared about when I signed up was how I would place in the rankings.
As for the idea of competitions themselves, I actually agree with what's been said here. I signed up at the last minute, and did it more to get feedback on my technique than anything. But, ranking technique in folk music does seem strange. This is the music of normal people, not the music of classically-trained musicians. It's not necessarily wrong for it to be rough around the edges. Competing in folk music, to me, tends to take "folk" aspect out of it a bit. The last thing I cared about when I signed up was how I would place in the rankings.
-
Cayden
Some interesting thoughts expressed here: the old 'snobe' is revived once again for one. Competitions are silly but is it for the reason that 'folk' music played by 'normal' people? 'Folk' musicians don't strive to play well, don't think of acquiring the best possible technique?Thomaston wrote:Thanks for the replies, everyone. It's comforting to know that it's a limited group that tends to have those snobbish thoughts.
As for the idea of competitions themselves, I actually agree with what's been said here. I signed up at the last minute, and did it more to get feedback on my technique than anything. But, ranking technique in folk music does seem strange. This is the music of normal people, not the music of classically-trained musicians. It's not necessarily wrong for it to be rough around the edges. Competing in folk music, to me, tends to take "folk" aspect out of it a bit. The last thing I cared about when I signed up was how I would place in the rankings.
[edited a glaring typo]
Last edited by Cayden on Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Azalin
- Posts: 2783
- Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Montreal, Canada
- Contact:
Yeah, eight years on this board and things don't change much do they?Peter Laban wrote: Some interesting thoughts expressed here: the old 'snobe' is revived once again for one. Competitions are silly but is it for the reason that 'folk' music played by 'normal' people? 'Folk' musicians don't strife to play well, don't think of acquiring the best possible technique?
So I guess I'm a snob because I mostly practice one-two hours a day and think this music is more than simple 'jam' music in which you can do whatever you please as long as you sing "Give Peace a Chance" between each tune... 
I think you guys are reading too much into this. Maybe I didn't say things in the right way. All I mean is that there's a difference between the folk music that is played by the "working-class" people, versus other types of music like classical and jazz, where the music is their sole profession.
I certainly don't think it's "simple jam music" or that there's anything wrong with practicing for hours a day. I myself practice as much as I can, and want my technique to be the best it can.
But, in a nutshell, to me at least, folk music is the type of music that people get together on the porch and play together in a relaxed atmosphere.
Hell, maybe I have a skewed view of folk music from my background in old-time banjo. And I'm sorry if any offense is taken... I don't mean any.
I certainly don't think it's "simple jam music" or that there's anything wrong with practicing for hours a day. I myself practice as much as I can, and want my technique to be the best it can.
But, in a nutshell, to me at least, folk music is the type of music that people get together on the porch and play together in a relaxed atmosphere.
Hell, maybe I have a skewed view of folk music from my background in old-time banjo. And I'm sorry if any offense is taken... I don't mean any.
Show me an ITM flute player that actually plays her 8-key flute chromatically, whereas this is a minimum for a working Boehm player.
What percentage of fiddlers play chromatically, or beyond first position, or with all possible bowing articulations?
There's improvisation/variations in ITM and then there's IMPROVISATION in jazz.
Does any jig or reel (or any album of such) hold a candle to Vivaldi's Four Seasons?
There's musical arrangement in recorded music, and then there's orchestral arrangements in jazz and classical.
Be it music, art, architecture, literature, or food, each form is valid in it's own right. Some however, are clearly more developed than others. Snobbery is not appreciated but it is understandable.
What percentage of fiddlers play chromatically, or beyond first position, or with all possible bowing articulations?
There's improvisation/variations in ITM and then there's IMPROVISATION in jazz.
Does any jig or reel (or any album of such) hold a candle to Vivaldi's Four Seasons?
There's musical arrangement in recorded music, and then there's orchestral arrangements in jazz and classical.
Be it music, art, architecture, literature, or food, each form is valid in it's own right. Some however, are clearly more developed than others. Snobbery is not appreciated but it is understandable.