A Question for Olwell Pratten players

[JeffS]

Are you supposed to grease the silver tuning slide of his flutes?

[Gabriel]

Although I'm an Aebi Pratten player, I suppose that tuning slides on wooden simple system flutes generally should/can be greased since they normally won't be taken apart for storage.

[LorenzoFlute]

i thought that the tuning slide shouldn't be greased (but should be cleaned), so that it won't leak air... i heard instead that you should put some beeswax on it, if it moves too much...

[jemtheflute]

If they are loose, short of getting the male tube swaged to tighten it, sure, beeswax as a stickifier and sealer is fine, as Othannen says. If all is operating as it should, grease isn't necessary, though if things are a little tight/stiff (and all is clean, there's no grot got in) a little cork grease or slide grease (for trombones etc.) is fine as a lubricant. However, using any grease does carry the risk of it gathering fine dust and grit which can potentialy become a source of damage or jamming. Ultimately a matter of personal choice, I think, rather than big, serious DOs or DON'Ts, if there are no leakage issues.

[Loren]

Are you supposed to grease the silver tuning slide of his flutes?

Jeff,

The answer is no. Flute makers choose to either make a greased slide, or a dry slide, the fit is different for each of these, so using grease on a slide that was made to be dry will cause problems. Every Olwell with a tuning slide I've ever owned or have run acroos was made with a dry fit slide. Of course you can always check with Patrick Directly.



Loren

[johnkerr]

Are you supposed to grease the silver tuning slide of his flutes?

That's basically a judgment call on your part, taking into consideration how loose or tight the slide is at any given time. And it <i>will</i> change over time, depending on factors like climate, amount of playing time, etc. It's a bit hard to fathom since the slides are metal and should not be as susceptible to expansion and contraction as wood is, but in my experience of owning an a Olwell flute with tuning slide for 16 years now there have been changes in the tightness of the slide. When I first got the flute, Patrick was advising against using any kind of grease on the slide because it would attract dirt and gunk that would eventually muddy up the slide. (I think he's since changed his advice relative to this.) So for the first 10 years or so, I did absolutely nothing to the slide and had no problems with it. Then it started to tighten up at times, and I found that cleaning it off with rubbing alcohol was enough to loosen it back up. But then, oddly, I found that the slide would be at its tightest when the wood tenon joints were at their loosest, such as at the start of a session in the dry, cold days of winter. As I'd play in the flute, the wood joints would expand and tighten and the slide would loosen up. I can't figure out the physics of why that would happen, but it does. I found that even cleaning off the slide with rubbing alcohol wasn't enough to keep it loose in such situations, so I have on occasion taken to using a bit of cork grease on it - but just a wee bit.

The bottom line is this: If the slide is at the right tightness, you don't need to apply any grease. If it's too tight, use a little. But remember, you don't want te slide to be so loose that even the slightest touch will cause it to move. You want it to be snug but moveable. Ideally, once you find the spot where you need to set it to play in tune, you shouldn't be moving it much after that.

[plunk111]

I use a touch of lanolin on my Copley. I also use it on the tuning slide of my trumpet and the slides of my tunable whistles. It's cheap, non-invasive, and works great.

Pat

[jemtheflute]

John, metal is of course more reactive to temperature changes than wood! Wood is more reactive to moisture changes than to temperature ones. A tuning slide could well tighten up when cold/loosen up when warm because the outer, larger tube will (due to its larger circumference) expand or contract relatively more than the smaller inner one. We're talking tiny amounts, but enough to make a difference! That's the explanation for what you describe.

The metal lining tubes attempting to expand when warmed is possibly a factor in wooden flutes cracking, as the metal will react to temperature change far faster than the wood, though in practice the wood is usually plenty strong enough to resist. Wood shrinkage around the structurally strong tubular resistance of the metal tubes due to gradual long-term dehydration is the bigger risk.

[jemtheflute]

I use a touch of lanolin on my Copley. I also use it on the tuning slide of my trumpet and the slides of my tunable whistles. It's cheap, non-invasive, and works great.

Pat

Well, you could at least have the decency to be sheepish about it! (Baaaaaah!)

[Gordon]

I don't generally grease the slides of my flutes, but if you are greasing your slide, because it's sticking, then you have to (more) regularly wipe it clean, and reapply the grease. Dry, clean metal-to-metal is best, IMO - I think Loren's right, though, to check with Olwell directly; most makers agree on most things, but they know more about their individual flutes than a few dozen C&Fers with varying opinions on their own preferences or experiences.

[mahanpots]

Ahhh. At last, a post I can reply to. Yes, I use grease on the tuning slide on my Olwell Pratten, but I use it very sparingly. I haven't added any "tuning slide grease" to it in I don't know how many years, perhaps years ago when I might have cleaned the slide one time. A little dab'll do ya.

Dippity Do. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxTunPvi5pY )

Never had a problem with the slide.

Michael

[Loren]

Are you supposed to grease the silver tuning slide of his flutes?

Jeff, going back to the original question: "Are you supposed to grease the silver tuning slide of his (Olwell's) flutes?"

Just contact Pat. You're getting lot's of opinions and "I do this", but those have little to do with what you're supposed to do based on what the maker intended. Write to Patrick and get proper answer - most of the folks here, while well intentioned, are giving answers on something well out of their area of expertise.

As a matter of fact: Silver (and most other metal) slides that were made to be used without grease will get tight over time due to tarnishing. (And just to be clear, many flute slides are made to be used with grease, but the fit is very different from that of a dry fit slide) This does not mean one should start greasing a dry fit slide if/when it starts to get tight, although many people do this. What you are supposed to do is use a silver polishing cloth to remove the tarnish, then the slide will work as new, without the need for greasing. One need not use a jewelers "Rouge" polishing cloth, as rouge is somewhat abrasive, and over the years this can actually make your slide a bit looser. Rather, get a chemical silver polishing cloth, which is essentially non-abrasive, and your slide should fit perfectly for many years.

Cleaning with rubbing alcohol will will remove some of the dirt that adheres to and around the tarnish (which doesn't have to be visible to cause slide tightness) however it won't actually remove the majority of tarnish. This is why cleaning the slide with something like alcohol will help at first, but as the tarnish build-up continues, one will have to eventually use grease if tarnish isn't removed properly.

Dry fit slides that are still unusually tight after a proper cleaning with a polishing cloth typically have been bent out of round, even if you can't see it. Using grease may help, but the slide should be put back into round. Or at least that what one is supposed to do.

Normal temperature range changes should not affect fit, although changes in humidity can, as higher humidity is generally known to increase how quickly tarnish occurs/builds up.


Loren

[Guinness]

I agree about the tarnish adding friction, having cleaned, polished, and repaired a few tuning slides myself. A very small amount of oil shouldn't do much harm, especially since it will help reduce the rate of tarnish. In fact, I know of at least one maker who used to silver plate the female brass portion of the slide and leave the male portion unplated. I guess they were unaware of galvanic corrosion and so with time you get a locked slide.

The risk of using oil is if there's excess, and especially if it's the drying kind (almond), it will get pushed into the headjoint along with some dirt. That accumulation is very hard to remove and may one day prevent you from completely collapsing the head and second joints.

Principally I agree with contacting the maker and following his/her advice, because then it's their responsibility if something goes wrong.

[johnkerr]

The risk of using oil is if there's excess, and especially if it's the drying kind (almond), it will get pushed into the headjoint along with some dirt. That accumulation is very hard to remove and may one day prevent you from completely collapsing the head and second joints..

Oils like you would use inside the bore of a wooden flute have too much viscosity for properly lubricating a tuning slide anyway. You want about the same amount of play in a tuning slide as you have in your tenon joints - assuming your tenon joints aren't either seized or overly loosened by swelling or drying out, of course.

[Doug_Tipple]

My joints are nearly seized from swelling during these wet April days. I use fish oil capsules daily, but I'm not sure whether the oil ever gets to my joints or not.

This thread again reminds me that intelligent and well-informed people can see things differently. I can agree with the argument that silver tenons shouldn't need any oiling if they are kept clean and free from dents and tarnish. After all, you don't want the tuning slide to be like a trombone slide. On the other hand, I don't see how a little light oil (not Wolf's Head 50 weight) couldn't help but improve a stiff tuning slide.