SOLD: Keyed F, and B flutes

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:52 am

The flutes are Sold!

I've got two flutes for sale a Hawkes and Son F, and a Boosey and Hawkes B, both with 5 keys. The F flute has a tuning slide added by Jon Cornia which puts it in tune at 440, the B plays with no modifications in 440. Both are really nice playing flutes, but I am looking for a more edgy sound which means I probably will bite the bullet and just get a new keyed F from Hammy or Dave Copley, hence i'd like to sell these. I would say that this F flute is much more like a Rudall than the Pratten's I am used too, keep that in mind. I am looking to get $450 for the F, and $125 for the B. I think the price for the F is fair given that a new keyed one would cost upwards of 2k. The photo below makes them looked cracked, they are not, it's just a reflection of the camera tripod.
<p>If you have an questions send me a pm, or better yet and email as I check that more often.

bepoq · Post by **bepoq** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:18 am

Possibly five keys?

Gabriel · Post by **Gabriel** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:18 am

One of the keys is invisible, can't you see it?

I'd love the F flute. Cash is short unfortunately.

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:54 am

Just updated the prices to $450 for the F flute, and $125 for the B.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:55 pm

"B"? I take it it is actually a High Pitch Bb that plays near enough in B at modern pitch?

If that tuning slide and barrel are additions, Jon did a nice job - you can't tell from that photo - look like they're original! Surely though a Boosey like that would have had a barrel and tuning slide originally? Did Jon re-tune the tone-holes as well, or was that not necessary?
Cheers.

O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago · Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:16 pm

The B flute plays at 440 without any modifications, and has not been altered in an way. The Hawkes flute had the slide put in of course, but I am not sure if Jon had to do any fine tuning, I can say though that it plays in tune.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:42 pm

If it makes any difference, I'll vouch for the seller, here.

It's not my place to mention his name, but he and I indeed have done some good business in the past.

He is honest, and above board.

He also is expert at shipping, first class.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:36 pm

BUMP!

Worthwhile, for sure.

roj · Post by **roj** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:17 pm

I'm curious about the application of either flute.

What would normally be a Bb key on a D flute would be ...what? on an F flute? ...Eb?

I could see having a B simple system to play in B or F#, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around where the keys would take you.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:38 pm

F XXX XXX
G XXX XXO
A XXX XOO
Bb XXX OOO
C XXO OOO
Db/C# XDO OOO
D XOO OOO
E OOO OOO

roj · Post by **roj** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:56 am

Hi Denny,
Thanks for the reply. I get that F is the one, and on up the scale, just as D is the one on a D flute.

But my question regards the keys. There's so much discussion here at C&F about whether keys are even necessary for ITM with a D flute.

I'm just semi-bewildered about where keys on an odd-key flute like F or B would take you, and how you would apply them. Is there a particular genre of music for which they would be more inclined?

bepoq · Post by **bepoq** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:09 am

I think you play these sorts of flutes primarily for themselves and for your own pleasure in their different voice, not so much to play tunes in odd keys. They supply a different timbre and sonority and a different experience of playing. You can also use them for accompanying songs and transposing tunes as one would with a whistle, but I don't really think that is were the pleasure of having one really lies. They also lend themselves well to the Northern repertoire, particularly marches, many of them having been made for military or flute band use. Listen to Harry Bradley recordings or Conal O'Grada. I've a track on my CD using two of them, an old Hawkes and an old Potter, both in F-ish - you can listen to it on my myspace page listed in my signature below if you'd like to hear a sample, the track is called the 47th Highlanders Farewell (the other flute player is Dan Lowery). Mainly, they are just a great deal of fun to play.

The keys are there if you want to play any of the tunes that are more readily played with keys - for example what would be G minor tunes or D minor tunes on your D flute - many Fahey tunes, East Galway tunes in general - you get the idea.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:22 am

roj wrote:....
I'm just semi-bewildered about where keys on an odd-key flute like F or B would take you, and how you would apply them. Is there a particular genre of music for which they would be more inclined?

transposing music to a different key signature does not change its "genre".
The interval relationships of scales or modes do not change on account of transposition, only the pitch.

What exactly is odd about an F flute? Is D minor odd? Is it odder than E min. or B min? Oh Dear!

Picking a book at random - oh here is one - Walton's "Ireland the Songs, Book 2" has several songs notated in F key signature.

To my mind, a chromatic concert F flute would make a lovely addition to my swag. But I cannot afford it esp. as Mrs T. is watching me over my shoulder .....

bepoq · Post by **bepoq** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:38 pm

I think it is fairly clear what Roj means by odd - in a key that one does not commonly find in the context of traditional Irish dance music, or to put it another way, the reason we do not attempt, by and large, to play F flutes in sessions. As to genre, a cultural construct if ever there was one, I reckon you could argue fairly convincingly that the Northern marching tradition for which many of these flutes were made is of a different (though closely related) genre to the dance music, and that these flutes' different keys lead you there - in other words, it is more than just transposition that you get out of these flutes, I think, and marches are really fun to play on them - not that you can't also play them on D flutes. I agree with you Talasiga (note the careful use of no nickname, I bow) though that Roj is trying to figure out about these flutes from a perspective that is probably not helping his understanding of them.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:57 pm

bepoq wrote:I think it is fairly clear what Roj means by odd - in a key that one does not commonly find in the context of traditional Irish dance music, or to put it another way, the reason we do not attempt, by and large, to play F flutes in sessions.
........

I was speaking from a broader flute perspective and not specifically Irish dance session music.
The pieces I referred to in Waltons book 2
are notated in F key signature.
They are all from the Irish tradition and there are many more in the other books.
They aren't "session" music but they are still traditional.

And my initial comments went towards the point for those who may want to enjoy ITM dance music
with a lighter flute for private interpretative pleasure or in a non group session situation.
The point is the "genre" does not change simply on account of transposition.

When Matt Molloy plays something with his Eb flute that is normally played on a D flute,
the "genre" isn't changed merely on account of the transposition.
However when Tally Wally plays Foggy Dew and he plays it as a piece ensconced in interpretations
of a raaga-ic exploration of E min on his Irish D flute he is not playing in the ITM genre,
notwithstaning he is playing a trad ITM song in a key that it is normally played in.